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That would be hydrogen - the simplest atom. And the electron (negative charge) is balanced by the proton (positive charge). The neutron is neutral with no electrical charge. Ions, of course lose or gain an electron from another atom so the atom becomes attracted to another ion with a positive charge - thus making molecular bonds.
Thanx Tesaje
Close but no cigar for me.
But the gist of what I said stands even though I got my terminolgy screwed up.
That was a real dig into my Chemistry or is it Physics archive 33 years after leaving school . Back then we did Physics with Chemistry as a subject and believe it or not I actually won a prize at the local young scientists exhibition - go figure. Never pursued science as a career.
Christians on the whole do not believe there are “three gods in one”, but do believe that there are three Persons all of the same Substance, co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. And we do believe there is ample ground for this belief in the Scriptures, where plurality in the Godhead is very strongly intimated if not expressly declared.
In Genesis 1:26 Jehovah is speaking of creation and He speaks in the plural number, “Let US create man in OUR image after OUR likeness.” Now it is obvious that God would not create man in His image and the angels’ images if He were talking to them, so He must have been addressing someone else and who, but His Son and the Holy Spirit who are equal in Substance could He address in such familiar terms.
Since there is no other God but Jehovah, there must be a unity in plurality and Substance or the passage is not meaningful. The same is true of Genesis 11:7, at the tower of Babel, when God said, “Let US go down,” and also of Isaiah 6:8, “who will go for US….”.
These instances of plurality indicate something deeper than an interpersonal relationship; they strongly suggest what the New Testament fully develops, namely, a Tri-Unity in the One God.
The other God thing did no accidently find itself in the Bible. Nor was the reference to (US) in the first book of the Bible an oversite on Moses part.
Of course it was not accidental.
In those day and age before the tribes of Israel had a vast territory of their own they had to defeat other tribes. What better way to claim that Israel's God is superior by having the tribes of Israel defeat the other neighbouring tribes and conquer their lands?
So by having defeated the other tribes the God of Israel proved that only he is worthy of their worship. Besidez, if the God of Israel was the only God, why would God command them to only worship Him?
If there are no other gods the commandment to only worship the God of Abraham is unnecessary.
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The reason God said let (US) make man in (OUR) image is because God exist as more than one person. There is only one God, yet He exist in more than one persons.
Which perfectly explains that the 1-in-3 concept is a Christian dogma. I mean why limit yourself to only 3?
Why not the 1-in-100, or the 1-in-infinity, like the Hindu's have done? But I guess the 1-in-infinity god concept defeats the whole purpose of monotheism.
Christians on the whole do not believe there are “three gods in oneâ€, but do believe that there are three Persons all of the same Substance, co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. And we do believe there is ample ground for this belief in the Scriptures, where plurality in the Godhead is very strongly intimated if not expressly declared.
In Genesis 1:26 Jehovah is speaking of creation and He speaks in the plural number, “Let US create man in OUR image after OUR likeness.†Now it is obvious that God would not create man in His image and the angels’ images if He were talking to them, so He must have been addressing someone else and who, but His Son and the Holy Spirit who are equal in Substance could He address in such familiar terms.
Since there is no other God but Jehovah, there must be a unity in plurality and Substance or the passage is not meaningful. The same is true of Genesis 11:7, at the tower of Babel, when God said, “Let US go down,†and also of Isaiah 6:8, “who will go for US….â€.
These instances of plurality indicate something deeper than an interpersonal relationship; they strongly suggest what the New Testament fully develops, namely, a Tri-Unity in the One God.
I like the words you used underlined above which leaves the door open.
The problem I have with the doctrine is that it is NOT expressly stated and hence one is forced into a back engineering attempt to prove it.
Once I did an analogy of all NT references and listed all the instances where the separateness of the Son from the Father was expressly stated and not inferred. If I can find it I will post it but there are just too many references that oppose the trinity doctrine IMO.
But folk have been debating this for eons so I think once one's mind is made up you pretty much are stuck with that. IMO it is a non sequitur anyway as I have rarely seen any debate come away with a conclusive result based purely on logic and scriptural support.
One need only look at how the early baptisms were carried out and compare that with the great commission to see this is no new thing being discussed/understood.
It is just ironic that some folk see if you do NOT believe in the trinity then that automatically means you do not believe in "all the above" as if it is a pre-conditional requirement to becoming Christian.
I have traced the pagan roots and see that it is NOT necessary for me to believe otherwise.
Wrong analogy - been out of school many years but there is only one substance that has one proton, one neutron and one electron. There are many different atoms - maybe some of the science brethren can help me out here which element I am speaking of. I think it is Helium. Well all other atoms have more than one proton/neutron and electrons are balanced by the number of Neutrons (if I remember correctly) - so that really blows your hypothesis.
I don't wrestle with the concept of oneness like you do. Jesus is simply the Son of God not God himself. You are trying to defend a dogma that cannot be logically defended, it is likely you do not even know the origins of the trinity doctrine but that is pure speculation on my part based on the atom analogy.
Believe me I have debated this ad infinitum and have yet to find a logical/biblical citation I cannot refute. If believing in triangles gives you "warm fuzzies" be my guest, I do not need it, never have, never will. In fact w/o the concept of trinity polluting my mind, scripture makes sense as it is written.
The early church never taught it and the famous 1Jn 5:7-8 proof text are known tampering of the original texts. Do some research. I can give you links if you are interested and have about 2 days to read that presents both sides of the argument.
No, neither are lying, it is a extra biblical dogma that requires defence. not what is written particularly in the NT.
I'm sorry, but it is not extra biblical dogma, it is the Word of God that tells us this. And it appears that is what you are having a problem with, and not dogma.
Isaiah 44:24 This is what the LORD says- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, (WHO HAS MADE ALL THINGS), WHO (ALONE STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVENS), WHO SPREAD OUT THE EARTH BY (MYSELF),
John 1:3 States that it was Jesus (who made all things).
So tell me, did the God of the Old Testament make all things alone and by Himself? or Did Jesus Christ make all things?
Originally Posted by Campbell34 Of course it was not accidental.
In those day and age before the tribes of Israel had a vast territory of their own they had to defeat other tribes. What better way to claim that Israel's God is superior by having the tribes of Israel defeat the other neighbouring tribes and conquer their lands?
So by having defeated the other tribes the God of Israel proved that only he is worthy of their worship. Besidez, if the God of Israel was the only God, why would God command them to only worship Him?
If there are no other gods the commandment to only worship the God of Abraham is unnecessary.
Which perfectly explains that the 1-in-3 concept is a Christian dogma. I mean why limit yourself to only 3?
Why not the 1-in-100, or the 1-in-infinity, like the Hindu's have done? But I guess the 1-in-infinity god concept defeats the whole purpose of monotheism.
What on earth does conquering their neighbors lands have to do with God speaking of Himself as more then one person?
The God of Israel is the only God, yet He exist as more than one person.
If the one in three concept was only Christian dogma, the God of the Old Testament would not of said let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
I'm sorry, but it is not extra biblical dogma, it is the Word of God that tells us this.
If a scientist claims that a circle has 4 corners but cannot prove it, he simply is being illogical.
But if it is written in the Bible that God declared that a circle has 4 corners it is not illogical, but a biblical dogma.
Simply because Christians believe that God doesn't make any mistakes.
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What on earth does conquering their neighbors lands have to do with God speaking of Himself as more then one person?
Because it perfectly explains not only the origin but also the rise of Judaism.
Not only do I read the Bible, I also look at the historical context of the bible.
In short: I do not solely fix my gaze on the Bible alone, I also have eyes for history, sociology and politics.
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If the one in three concept was only Christian dogma, the God of the Old Testament would not of said let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
Does God refer to himself in the plural in other texts of the Torah? I think not.
Sorry Campbell, wrong again. The universe as we know it has been around for billions of years. Now invisably there were perhaps billions of Angelic sons of God created who were perhaps created before that as well. Now as the last of created works came the earth and mankind. So who was God almighty talking to ? Yeah, okay, JESUS! However, I have often been quoted this scripture in Colosians 1:16 & 17 by those who insist that this pagan Trinity is biblical.
Alright, I agree with all of that. No problem there for me. However, take a look at the inconvenient verse 15 just before those two verses.
Well that's strange, Jesus is the first born of every creature ? Jesus had a beginning ? I thought he was God and God is said to have had no beginning, but has always been ? He, like us is also mentioned as being in God's image ? What does it mean to be in God's image ? No way, don't even try to spin it any other way than how it reads!
Wow Questions, Questions, Questions
Jesus is God's son according to this and his first born at that. Nothing strange about a father sharing work with his first born who he is proud of. Of course is does'nt spell out the mechanics of how things were accomplished, but then it does'nt need to.
I also don't know why deception has always had to be employeed in trying to prove this either. I have a couple of examples and one had to do with Joseph Smith of Mormon fame.
I'll get back to you. I've already posted this in another thread, but obviously we have memory lapses here.
It is a mistake to believe that Col. 1:15 is suggesting that Jesus was a created being. Col. 1:18 tells you that Jesus was the (first born from the dead). You have to read the entire text to get what first born is refering to. When Christ died on the cross and was raised from the dead, this is what first born is speaking of.
And there is simply no escaping it, the God of the Old Testament tells us that He made all things alone and by Himself. Yet we have the New Testament telling us that Jesus Christ made all things. You cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus Christ and the Father = one God, or someone is not speaking the truth. If Jesus and the Father are not the same God, you cannot have the Father saying He did everything alone and by Himself, when in reality He was having Jesus helping Him. Above all things the Scriptures are honest, and God is not here to play the old shell game with us.
Originally Posted by Campbell34 If a scientist claims that a circle has 4 corners but cannot prove it, he simply is being illogical.
But if it is written in the Bible that God declared that a circle has 4 corners it is not illogical, but a biblical dogma.
Simply because Christians believe that God doesn't make any mistakes.
Because it perfectly explains not only the origin but also the rise of Judaism.
Not only do I read the Bible, I also look at the historical context of the bible.
In short: I do not solely fix my gaze on the Bible alone, I also have eyes for history, sociology and politics.
Does God refer to himself in the plural in other texts of the Torah? I think not.
Christians have confidence in the Bible because it has been proven correct so many times that we don't even question its accuracy anymore. You come here and say just the oppsite, yet were still waiting for you to show us such obvious mistakes. Be it historical discovery, or prophecy the Bible is showing us daily that it is a Book that can be trusted. Now can you show us where the Bible is wrong? You will refer to men who made mistakes about their Biblical belief, but can you show us mistakes in the Bible? If the Bible was written by just simple men then the prophecies should of been exposed as incorrect long ago. Yet here we are thousands of years latter, and the hits just keep coming. There are just to many details that are being fulfilled here, and I don't have that strong of a faith to believe that it is all happing with 100% accuracy by luck.
Christians have confidence in the Bible because it has been proven correct so many times that we don't even question its accuracy anymore.
Yes well the Nazis had complete confidence in Hitler and they also never questioned him.
I guess fascism goes hand in hand with blind obedience and / or blind faith.
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You come here and say just the oppsite, yet were still waiting for you to show us such obvious mistakes.
What are you talking about?
I've told you from the beginning that people will believe whatever it is they want to believe anyway.
I do not live in the illusion that I can change your mind.
Because no matter what evidence I bring to light you will not believe me, simply because believing me, Tricky D, would prove that the Bible (and yourself by extension) are wrong.
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Be it historical discovery, or prophecy the Bible is showing us daily that it is a Book that can be trusted.
You have explained perfectly to me how fascists can justify their beliefs by using Biblical scripture.
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and I don't have that strong of a faith to believe that it is all happing with 100% accuracy by luck.
You assume that I believe in luck or coincidence, which I don't.
I simply believe that every action has it's reaction. When ignorant people put their faith in fascism, fascism will only gain power.
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. Back then we did Physics with Chemistry as a subject and believe it or not I actually won a prize at the local young scientists exhibition - go figure. Never pursued science as a career.
Of course it was not accidental.
Besidez, if the God of Israel was the only God, why would God command them to only worship Him? 
I mean why limit yourself to only 3? 
I think not.
Questions, Questions, Questions 
