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Old 07-30-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,597,697 times
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noland123 wrote:
Quote:
Montana read Acts 1:8 and then the rest of the Book of Acts and that will clear things up for you. Then read John 3:16 again.
Believe it or not I have a Bible here and I just read those passages. It didn't clear up anything because the Bible is such a large book that you can find something to represent any point of view and even those passages didn't shed any light on my question. So first of all let me ask you if you are a Christian and if you believe that the sum total of the Bible is directly from God. I suspect that you do since you directed me to those passages. I have to admit that there is alot of difficulty in reading a book that was translated from a foreign language into a form of english that no one speaks today. I find much of the Bible to be unintelligible for that very reason and that is probably why millions of Bible readers don't have the foggiest idea of what it's really saying. My basic question is whether or not being a Christian or not being a Christian is a factor in whether or not you go to heaven. From my understanding of the Bible it is absolutely a factor and if you don't believe in Jesus and accept him then you're simply not going. Instead of asking me to read unintelligible Bible passages just tell me what you think. Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate your input.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Ireland
896 posts, read 1,862,464 times
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Well I'm sorry for all of you. You see I'm in Ireland and as everyone knows the Emerald Isle is.... well see and hear for yourselves
here.

So for us here in Ireland? 100% of us of course.
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:10 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,154,382 times
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I'll hazard a guess and pick the US. That doesn't speak well for the rest of he world of course, because it'll be only a small percentage in the US. There are many people that think they are Christians and saved that are not, which is a tragedy.
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Old 07-31-2008, 04:14 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,433,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
A refreshing perspective - you nearly there, how about ALL?



It will destroy itself just like all other empires fell, it was from within where it germinated - the fall I mean. We need God to deliver but we are quite capable of destroying ourselves w/o His divine intervention and/or judgement.
Yes, and the only people in hell will be those who think that everyone will be in heaven! lol!
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Old 07-31-2008, 04:59 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,199,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Yes, and the only people in hell will be those who think that everyone will be in heaven! lol!
Keep a seat warm for me or should that be cool
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:01 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,262,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
I think that's a much more enlightened point of view than many people have but there isn't any religion I'm aware of that promotes it. The Christian religion is very clear in many Bible passages that you must accept Christ. If you believe there really is a heaven and a God do you also believe that there is a specific religion that God has inspired? All of the major religions have differing beliefs and contradict each other so they can't all be right. I think it's much more likely that they're all wrong.
Let me explain my view...

I said this...
Quote:
The kingdom of God includes people from all cultures, up-bringings and walks of life.

Believing in a religion of a culture won't get anybody to heaven.

Responding to the call of God will, and God doesn't see the cultural barriers we do.
Having said that, I believe this:

Jesus is the only way to heaven. He died for the sins of the whole world.

Does this mean that I need to know everything about the Bible, or say the "sinner's prayer" (or even know about the salvation story) to be saved? Not necessarily. But I do need to answer the call of God to receive His grace, which is available to me through Jesus' sacrifice. I personally know some people who responded to the call of God, not knowing completely what it was, and their life was changed. Later they heard of being "born again" and said "That is what happened to me!"

We in this "churched" land may think that someone needs to hear about Jesus or to have a full understanding of the salvation story, why He died, and formally accept Him into our hearts to be saved. In some cases, this may be our own cultural barrier! We are so accustomed to the story that there is danger of making a mental assent to the call of God, rather than truly following and having life-changing faith. It is true that we do have a great advantage over those who live in lands where they have not heard of the gospel story, but along with that comes a greater responsibility. God knows how responsible each one on this earth is.

So, the bottom line is... Jesus has died for everyone, and the gift is available to all. But we need to respond to God's call in order to receive this. This is something required of everyone, no matter what their up-bringing or culture, and only God knows what that step may be. He desires to bring everyone into all truth, and will do this as we continue to follow Him.

But we MUST follow!

EDIT: And in many cases this will eventually mean leaving everything we've been brought up to believe, breaking free of the cultural and religious "barriers", forsaking all as we follow the Call.

Last edited by cg81; 07-31-2008 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:09 AM
 
22,007 posts, read 19,112,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
I think that's a much more enlightened point of view than many people have but there isn't any religion I'm aware of that promotes it.
If you believe there really is a heaven and a God do you also believe that there is a specific religion that God has inspired? All of the major religions have differing beliefs and contradict each other so they can't all be right. I think it's much more likely that they're all wrong.
God is in all religions
All people of all nations are children of a loving god
we are one family, all of us

and there are PLENTY of spiritual paths that teach and live that

it is helpful to differentiate between "religion" and "spirituality"
religion divides people
spirituality unites people

heaven and hell are human-made creations, not of god or spirit at all
no loving god could come up with such a horrible concept, only limited humans

basically "them" is a four letter word. we are all "us"
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:18 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,262,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
God is in all religions
DimSum, your post may sound good, but I do not believe it to be true. While God may (and does) speak to someone who is following another religion, it would be in spite of their religion, not because of it... and, if they respond, eventually they will find out that the religion they are following simply does not give them what they need... or, alot of times when God calls, they are already seeking for something that their religion just does not seem to be providing.

God has no use for religions! But He loves to touch a seeking heart.
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Old 07-31-2008, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,597,697 times
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cg81 wrote:
Quote:
So, the bottom line is... Jesus has died for everyone, and the gift is available to all. But we need to respond to God's call in order to receive this.
Ok but let me get a little clarification. Do you think that God requires exactly the same response from a human being no matter what culture they're from and by that I mean accepting Christ as their savior or do you think that someone who has lived their life in Pakistan for example, a culture in which Christianity is associated with many negative stereotypes, will be judged by a somewhat different set of criteria? The Bible seems to be very clear on this matter and it says that you must accept Christ. It's completely unrealistic to think that someone in a culture like Pakistan is going to respond to God's call and become a Christian. That's the whole point of this thread, it's the basic unfairness that the accident of where you are born will greatly affect the odds of whether or not you go to heaven. To be honest, this is just another example of why I could never believe in any religion, if there really was a God your culture and upbringing would have nothing to do with where you were going to spend eternity.
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,001 posts, read 34,321,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
cg81 wrote:

Ok but let me get a little clarification. Do you think that God requires exactly the same response from a human being no matter what culture they're from and by that I mean accepting Christ as their savior or do you think that someone who has lived their life in Pakistan for example, a culture in which Christianity is associated with many negative stereotypes, will be judged by a somewhat different set of criteria? The Bible seems to be very clear on this matter and it says that you must accept Christ. It's completely unrealistic to think that someone in a culture like Pakistan is going to respond to God's call and become a Christian. That's the whole point of this thread, it's the basic unfairness that the accident of where you are born will greatly affect the odds of whether or not you go to heaven. To be honest, this is just another example of why I could never believe in any religion, if there really was a God your culture and upbringing would have nothing to do with where you were going to spend eternity.
I know this question was not directed to me, but this is what I believe, ALL people are born with an inner sense of what God requires and I believe He will judge everyone different, according to how much knowledge they have about Him, how many times they have heard the truth (according to the Bible). I believe God is fair and will judge fair. You're right, it has nothing to do with culture.
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