Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (Satan, rejecting, Buddhists)

[PeaceMaker21]

Hi again everyone - this may be my last post before christmas though I'll try to respond to individual points by DM, as it takes less time to write than a full-post - I don't view attempting to open the 3rd-eye and meeting family and work obligations as mutually exclusive by any means...so for me it's not a matter of which I should give most priority to - in Tinseltown-Season for example, it is undoubtedly family - The question @EOF quoted: about who we would want to be with in our last moments if the world were to end tomorrow was of course purely hypothetical - to illustrate the depth and level of yearning required to make spiritual truth a reality within oneself, and I hope in this post I help explain why I personally am not choosing to become a recluse (hiding away in a cave etc) as the process of opening the third-eye takes place - It's important to me to go for self-realization as a living experience, not something just to be meditated on or talked about...

@Still_Kicking -

Apologies mate, I misread in haste your post in the bit about female followers earlier and had you down wrongly as a "she" - are you a Brit or Aussie by any chance btw? Not many yanks I know who say "cheers mate!" - just curious to know where you hail from...if u don't wanna say, no worreez - there were a couple of seeker meetings held in the UK, Australia and New Zealand back in '04 and wondering if we have ever met...?

Thanks for your kind remarks, btw - Yes, I do want the Truth - and when do I want it? Now! In my current state of "in-love with the MP teachings, but eyes still wide open" I view each post that is made here by others with excitement, in part so that I may test the validity of my current belief-set, in the way an uncut stone looks forward to its time on the grindstone, in order to polish and sharpen itself for I agree that if our critical faculities are not used, they atrophy, and the process of "blissing out and going within" can turn out to be pretty detrimental to the mind and frankly rather "masturbatory" if all we do is "get off" on one's own thought-stream without knowing if it is one's ego or some higher spiritual force within that is at work: so being a "spiritual recluse", as one of the few chelas in London, is not a place (in consciousness) that I want to stay...so thanks everyone regardless of your current opinion of Gary, for opening my eyes and making for a fascinating journey.

I dig that there are others here of a similar scientific background too - yes, I agree it's interesting on MP that there are quite often convenient "one-liner answers for almost everything" such as "oh, it's just karma" - answers which apparently shut down the possibility of any ensuing critical dialogue - But having defined yesterday what my experience of "being centered in the flow" feels like - which goes beyond "warm and fuzzy" feelings of (Divine?) Love...to a sparkling of mental/spiritual activity (in MPP: A flow of fresh vritti": living-images, new ideas and thought forms which apparently come out of nowhere inside oneself - maybe the like the non-chemical equivalent of Kary Mullis' discovery of PCR under the influence of LSD...?) - then these one-liners that previously would just have annoyed me when I was *NOT* centered, become gateways to worlds of ideas when I *AM* centered, and even the one-liner - "an answer is a form of death" - takes on new and deeper meaning.

i.e. the very little that is said in "one-liners" such as "Surrender - that's all you need to do!" or "It's karma!" serve as the kind of catalyst (when centered in ecstatic love) that a mind hungry for truth needs, in order to keep it exploring and seeking...e.g. by wondering, "what is surrender? - who surrenders what to who exactly and how? - is surrender the same as giving up?" or..."what is karma? what is karma made of? how is it earned? what is good karma, what is bad karma? what is first cause...and what is effect?" - and by getting these answers out in the open, I for one think this protects me from becoming too complacent in accepting or stewing upon the ramblings of just my own mind within.

These are just my current understandings, always subject to revision in the light of new data, so if anyone thinks I am deluded, please feel free to point this out. I like to read widely - especially anything to do with the sciences and spirituality, and I definitely plan to follow up some of the links and science references that @Violet and @S_K have posted up here.

I agree @S_K, that the dataset on MP membership turnover etc might make for interesting objective statistical data to read, but would in itself not be proof of gary olsen's authenticity as a sat guru or not - if the chelas who are choosing to stay, do so because they continue to derive qualitative subjective benefits, then an examination of individual experiences would maybe be a better indicator...

As it happens...the 2002 MP website did contain a bunch of those...some written by friends I have known personally for many years...and I have finally found time to compile all the articles together, along with the rest of the former website, including a few on the science of the spirituality of sound (PDF Bookmarks SCI-2 and SCI-3) into a single file...

(Click here where it says Please sign in to your eSnips account - No need to sign in)

Again, in the interests of privacy, I have deleted all names other than Sri Gary's where he was the author of a given article, but just for you @EOF I am sending you the totally unmodified version via an eSnips link by DM :-)

If anyone reading this wants their article removed from the file, please contact me immediately and I'll do so, otherwise I am assuming a right to share this once-internet-published set of documents in a "fair-use" manner.

Happy Reading and Happy Christmas everybody!

PM21 aka TOM - The Optimystik Mysfitt :-)

[Violet11]

Originally Posted by PeaceMaker21

I don't view attempting to open the 3rd-eye and meeting family and work obligations as mutually exclusive by any means...so for me it's not a matter of which I should give most priority to - in Tinseltown-Season for example, it is undoubtedly family - The question @EOF quoted: about who we would want to be with in our last moments if the world were to end tomorrow was of course purely hypothetical - to illustrate the depth and level of yearning required to make spiritual truth a reality within oneself, and I hope in this post helps it explains why I personally am not choosing to become a recluse (hiding away in a cave etc) as the process of opening the third-eye takes place -

Maybe you misunderstood, it was never implied here that family/work and MP practice were mutually exclusive or that one needs to be a recluse to open their third eye. This is again sort of misdirecting the dialogue to something that is not in dispute. The question was why the master is not first in your life. The example end_of_faith offered is one of several we've heard about how Gary asks that the master be above all in the student's life.

You are choosing NOT to put Gary above all, and I respect that. What I was questioning was why you chose MasterPath as a method of opening your third eye, and yet do not follow the method as prescribed by the master.

As for your reasoning behind why "one-liners" are good for your mind - I think once again, the real issue was side-stepped here. I'm not sure anyone was accusing MP of dishing out answers with one line. Of course I'll let Still_Kicking speak for himself, but my understanding of the point was that Gary/MP offers circular reasoning for answers, which can never be "wrong", because the conclusions are impossible to validate or disprove. Still_Kicking expressed this much more thoroughly and articulately, so refer back to his post.

The beyond warm fuzzies/sparkling mind you experience with new ideas coming out of nowhere...how is this unique to MasterPath and why do you credit Gary with it? You'll note that the geniuses and great minds of the world, and the greatest spiritual leaders/philosophers in history have never heard of the MasterPath.

A Merry Christmas to you as well - and to all here.

[Still_Kicking]

I was really only focusing on the circular reasoning and rationale.

In all fairness, I was reminded today that the entire spiritual process, and the intent of the MP is to drive one to go within and connect with one's own inner spiritual aspect, and determine what is not working correctly and address it. Which in the end, is not about the outer master / Gary, but that inner connection. In line with that, what Gary likely intended to say by his comments was not so much putting the outer master before one's family, but putting the inner master 1st, so as to guide you with your family in the best manner possible. If he meant otherwise then I have trouble with that, as anybody should or would. --If he didn't say it that way, then that is not the chela's fault for misinterpreting it, the fault lies with Gary, since it leaves misunderstanding a greater likelihood to occur. Sometimes the teacher is the problem, there does need to be some accountability for how things are taken if things are mentioned in a haphazard manner. --I've had to learn that when I was instructor why shouldn't Gary?

If you get that inner connection and it works for you, guides you and protects you in your life, and you gain by that in consciousness and otherwise, then I say power up and drive on and you roll with that. However if one does sincerely attempt this inner or outer connection and you get screwed by it, then it should not be followed, it is not an inner or outer master worth following, IMO.

That being said, it could be argued that even my extremely tough set of experiences / circumstances was intended to do that, and it was just my "karma" that was s**t. Additionally when I finally left that it could be argued that the time had come for me to leave the outer path and not to rely on the outer master any further but to stick to & maintain my connection with the inner master. And that it was/is my responsibility to respond dispassionately to my challenges, not letting anger, or any other emotion get the better of me as a result, no matter how vulnerable I was or may still be. Admittedly sometimes that is tougher to do, than to say. The point is to truly see what the cause was/is, since I would surely not be 1st cause in my own life but merely an emotional viewpoint / stance that I was locked into. Assuming that I didn't want to be pissed off for the remainder of my life, which I can honestly attest that I did not want, nor desire to be trapped by.

In the end we can all sit around and b***h & moan, righteous indignation, (e.g. play the victim), etc...my own attitude included. There can be a variety of reasons and rationales we can give ourselves to stay locked into that emotional stance, feelings of being victimized by another, etc...and it is the path of least resistance, and an easy one to fall into.
Look if I was naive (see ignorant) about people taking advantage of another, or even myself, when they're in a vulnerable space, emotionally, spiritually, or otherwise and this experience was what I needed to have to see it within myself, then so be it, that's just the way it came down for me and perhaps for others. Either way I am better served by accepting that truth than denying it.Educational -yes, bitter experience -yes, learning opportunity -yes, tough -yes, heartrending -yes. Can I allow those attitudes to stay and infect me negatively -sorry no I can't afford it so that means I've got to cowboy up to the situation, let go of what has happened and my responding to it negatively and drive on. I can't change the past, I can only manage the current attitude that I maintain, the best way that I can.
Whether rich or poor, fat or skinny, or whatever our outer lives are like we do manage to create our own realities, or more accurately the quality of our experiences and the quality of our lives by extension by the attitudes we maintain. --Like I said before not everything Gary has said is necessarily wrong, so I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Like anything else though take the good, and chuck the rest. We all have to move on with our lives, even those who've left the MP and may still have hard feelings towards Gary or the MP, it just won't do us any good, or provide any value, since it will only leave one bitter in the end. - I should know it's been ~3 years since I left, and it has taken time just to get to this point. Whatever does that in a constructive and positive manner is likely best.

Roll on, and keep the moss off your rock. Cheers.

[end_of_faith]

I'll repeat a one-liner: based on my experience, I know that your "guru" is not Sat.

Now, that is not a vindictive, angry, bitter, victim, etc. statement. It is straight up, and says exactly what it means.

It is fairly obvious that the "dialogue" (if we want to call it that) has quickly become an extraneous paralleling of thoughts, feelings, etc by those who protest too much.

I have walked with your guru and his wife. I have served him, his wife, his "path", and his family. In the end, my ultimate realization is that "his man-made organization, path, and self-appointment as guru" are bogus.

Now, to quote your "master".... put that in your pipe and smoke it.

all other words, explanations, defenses, mental ruminations, and cheerleader emotional reverie are meaningless to me.

and a happy holiday to you and your loved ones....

[Still_Kicking]

@End Of Faith. I'll assume that what you wrote was in part due to @Peacemaker21's and / or my last post. I'll let PM21 speak for himself.

From my perspective most of what you say is absolutely damn right and fair to state, and you would know better than most given your experience. It was important for me at least to read about your realization because in part it was the same that I eventually came to, albeit via my own manner - a validation if you will. And most sincerely thank you for that.

When @Shuffler asked the original question about Gary & the MP, it certainly was IMO what you say it was, when I 1st came across this blog I saw it as almost a slinging match of potshots and muckraking between those who were defending the MP, (e.g. Allan) who did protest too much, vs others who just seemed to make statements of well "he's bogus, a sham, etc..." IMO it simply lacked data, and facts from those who experienced the MP, rather than emotional spouting off. I personally wanted to see more statements of inconsistencies and issues with behavior that was or are suspect.

Perhaps others will share as well.

Your comment of Gary not being 'Sat' (= true, for those who don't know what that means), I agree with. Everything I have brought up in my posts has been an attempt to help point that out for folks. My last post was merely another way of putting it without mudslinging, and getting beyond my own emotional viewpoint on the bloody thing, emotional reverie - not hardly, mental rumination - sure I'll buy that, so what! I've said all along that posting here might be a cathartic thing to do, I make no apologies for that.

In speaking for myself I merely mention what I have since I have received a # of DM comments that what I this posting was beneficial for them/others to read, since they too struggled with moving on post-MP.

Fair or not, that you, me and/or others would be reviewing this blog, and or posting on it unless there was the hope of being able to move on, understand what the MP does or does not offer in reality, or perhaps just seeking closure? - I know I was seeking closure, and perhaps may help others in the process by my sharing how I saw things.

Or perhaps there is some other reason to review and post here? -- I don't know I am merely making an observation, not an accusation.

If a current chela is reading and posting on this then there must be a reason for it, that they will have to figure out for themselves, beyond the emotional reverie that I have seen posted.

Truly all the best to you and to everyone else.

[Still_Kicking]

See attached, jpeg file, picture of the chart.

** This chart was developed from cult exit-counselor Steven Hassan’s BITE (Behavior-Information-Thoughts-Emotions) model found in his book Releasing the Bonds—Empowering People to Think for Themselves, Freedom of Mind Press 2000.

This chart is the clearest linking of what a cult like the MP does and is and how it works its devotees, at least to me. I found it profoundly revealing.

Also National Geographic and the History International channels have shows on cults this evening starting at 8PM EST. Likely the same time PST.

[end_of_faith]

Still_kicking,

You have contributed to this thread/process in very much the way you describe, and I appreciate/respect all that you have shared and posted.

An ex-chela asked earlier in the thread if anyone else has trouble trusting people claiming to be spiritual.... I do.

I received a DM from a 'current chela' seeking information about my 'inner experiences'... and have chosen to not respond. Why? I don't trust the motives of anyone associated with MP. Sad, but true.

I'm not willing to share certain processes that I have gone through, or still experience (in degree) in regards to the past. My silent hope is that one day (hopefully soon) I will have zero thoughts about Gary or MP.

thank you Still_Kicking and I hope you have the very best holiday.

[Still_Kicking]

Well to get that answer you'll need to go to this link, "The Unknowing Sage", it is a pdf article, it is a mini version of the book by David Lane.

The webpage that this is located on is Wikipedia, so it should be a safe place to download from. (My suggestion is right click the link above and then save it to your hard drive and read it at your leisure)

If you want to know why Gary is not Sat, and why what he does on the MP is actually unethical, and is in fact a violation of spiritual law, well read what another Light & Sound master has to say about guru's who use such tactics, read and enjoy for yourselves.

I believe that Mr. Lane has done his homework, and to my satisfaction he uses Ockham's Razor too.

To get the full benefit of this, that is to see the Truth (or truth) for yourself, you'll need to read it all the way through. Yep its 140 pages or so, but IMO, an interesting and an extremely valuable and important read. I would've posted the file here but it is slightly larger than what city-data permits to be loaded up on the site.

The Truth always wins.

Cheers to All

[Still_Kicking]

Thanks @End _Of_Faih I do as well appreciate and respect what you've offered here on this blog.

Yeah not trusting those that feel the need to state about being spiritual...their deeds (read behavior) show that, no need to state it. So I share in that same healthy distrust, it has been earned.

A sad, but true fact for all of us. But I will say this in regard to your silent hope, read the article link that I provided in my most recent post, and perhaps that will help bring you, and perhaps others, one step closer to that desire. You most of all deserve that freedom.

The Truth Always Wins.

[SoulPatriot]

Peacemaker,

Your recent posts have brought a lite quease to me with their easily agreable, glossy and Masterpathy tone. You sound strangely like a MP lecture. So researched and metered out with numbered points, calculated references and a touch of cutesy humor. You take on the air of someone who is attempting to instruct without being too overt and I feel you are subtley manipulative in your approach. Maybe you should start your own Cult.

As far as a Christmas Present...? You may as well have left a burning bag of poo on my front door. No apologies necessary. Just keepin' it real "Mate".