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Old 09-15-2008, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,157,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
We're not saying a 4-month old can choose!

Do you do and believe every single thing that your parents did? Or did you grow up and get a mind of your own and start doing some things the way YOU wanted/believed?

That's all I'm saying. Those kids are going to have minds of their own (at least, I hope they will be raised to think for themselves!). Nobody can choose anyone else's religion for them. My suggestion was to expose them to many differing beliefs, in order to help them learn critical thinking and to aid them in deciding what they eventually will choose to believe. Mindless brainwashing by a parent insisting that only one way of thinking is the true way is shameful and narrow-minded.
We definitely agree on teaching them to think for themselves! I think this church really teaches a level of morality I agree with, and my partner agrees with too. He has no problem with them going there. I think, especially in this country, they need to have a solid understanding of Christianity in order to understand our society as a whole, and that it'll make them well-rounded adults. I still believe the most important class I ever took in college was a Critical Thinking course, and I plan on passing that on to them. I would say my own parents were more of the "mindless brainwashing" type, meaning it's either their beliefs or hell - you choose! Critical thinking helped me step out of that mindset, accept myself for who I am, and take a look at Christianity from the outside.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,854 posts, read 51,013,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wktully View Post
I'm in a similar situation - I have a three yr old son - husband is Christian and wants our son raised along that path, I on the other hand, was raised Christian but have since altered my path to something along the lines of enlightenment, consciuousness, being and presence - God is everywhere and everything not a deity per se but rather the energy that connects us all. I feel as others do on here to expose the child(ren) to both sides and at some point they will make their own choice. Present both sides, or all sides, in an objective way. Go to one church this Sunday and the other another day....or whatever the chosen paths are. As long as the cohabitation of your religious choices are harmonious at home - when one partner is calling the other wrong or creating negativity that's where the confusion for the child(ren) will come in. Each of you may find your own path - that's OK. No one is right and no one is wrong - find what works in your spirit.
This is such a great post!

When I was a young teen, once a month my Dad would tell me to pick a church and we would try it out. After church, he would take me out to lunch and we would talk about their beliefs and how they did things. He always pointed out that even though we discuss the differences, the importance was to focus on what was the same. The same was all these people, in their own way, were seeking for their God. This is why God says He looks at each individual heart and not the religious name tag.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,157,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel and The Dolphin View Post
He won't get into why he doesn't like the church you're going to? I'd have to say something happened. He overheard something he didn't like, or someone or someone(s) go there that he has some sort of issues with. If it was a case of style of worship or doctrine one would think he'd be open about his reasons and share them with you. His refusal to provide details speaks of something he doesn't want to share with you most likely to protect you from the ill will he's feeling. Just my two cents and a hunch.

If that's not it, many Catholics feel very comfortable in Episcopal churches, and a good many of them are liberal and gay affirming
You make a good point. He's black, and I'm white. The church is probably 90% white. I asked him if that was it, or if he would feel more comfortable in a more traditional "black church". He said that wasn't the issue either. It's a very accepting church that was pro-civil rights back in the '60s and then added gay rights to it's official stance in the '90s. I think they really try to attract more minorities, and there's a large black community nearby, but the black Christian community seems to stick to black churches. I guess it's just a social thing that's hard to overcome for churches on both sides.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,247,711 times
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You have gotten many good replies already, but I just wanted to affirm that I hope you and your partner will consider finding another church together, even tho you have gotten attached to this particular Presby church. It is so important that you attend as a family and I think your disappointment about NOT having that time together as a family would make it worth finding an entirely new church.

I know it is not always easy to find the right situation . . . but as Angel mentioned - Episcopal churches are very open to gay couples and the services are very similar to Catholic services (liturgy is almost identical). I would think about that.

Try to find some way to compromise so you can attend together and make it a meaningful growth experience for you both as partners as well as for your precious babies.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:17 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,863,956 times
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denverian, I'm going to say this but it's probably going to come out wrong. I don't mean it mean at all and I think you 'know' me well enough to read it the way intended.

If the following is true:

1. You're white/partner is black
2. You're in a homosexual relationship where these kids will have 2 'dads'.
3. These children were conceived 'via surrogacy/egg donor'.
4. You're an agnostic who's committed to going to church
5. Your partner is Catholic and you are not
6 etc ad nauseum

....then I don't think wondering why you guys are going to different churches is going to be a huge 'mixed message' issue with these kids.

These kids are going to be so used to weeding through mixed messages they'll be pros at it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,032 posts, read 8,907,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
So my advice to the OP would be: find a Church that reinforces your shared beliefs, and stick to it. It will be best for your children.
So YOU say. I was raised in a strict xtian household and when I grew up and left my parents' house I quit going to church and became an agnostic. I raised my kids to think for themselves, and I exposed them to many different belief systems including mine. Yet I didn't tell them that any one way was the only true way, nor did I insist that they believe how I believe. I encouraged them to think for themselves and reinforced the idea that religion or lack thereof is a PERSONAL choice that one can only make for themselves.

They grew up well-adjusted, happy, and not confused at all.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,157,142 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
denverian, I'm going to say this but it's probably going to come out wrong. I don't mean it mean at all and I think you 'know' me well enough to read it the way intended.

If the following is true:

1. You're white/partner is black
2. You're in a homosexual relationship where these kids will have 2 'dads'.
3. These children were conceived 'via surrogacy/egg donor'.
4. You're an agnostic who's committed to going to church
5. Your partner is Catholic and you are not
6 etc ad nauseum

....then I don't think wondering why you guys are going to different churches is going to be a huge 'mixed message' issue with these kids.

These kids are going to be so used to weeding through mixed messages they'll be pros at it.
You probably have a point there!

A funny side note from this weekend - we attended our neighbor's twins first birthday party Saturday and they're a married couple, but had to use a surrogate and egg donor to have children. Her sister also had to use a surrogate/egg donor (I didn't ask, but there might be something hereditary going on there) and one of her sister's twin daughters, age 5, asked me which one of us was the biological father, which I thought was impressive for a 5 year old. Until her mother told me she had just figured out recently that some kids are conceived in their parent's bedroom and carried by their mothers! We were laughing, thinking about future converstations of kids in our neighborhood, because there are several other sets of twins and triplettes conceived by IVF, plus several gay and lesbian couples with babies and kids. And here I thought my kids would be unique in that they have pictures of themselves in a petrie dish!
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,157,142 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
You have gotten many good replies already, but I just wanted to affirm that I hope you and your partner will consider finding another church together, even tho you have gotten attached to this particular Presby church. It is so important that you attend as a family and I think your disappointment about NOT having that time together as a family would make it worth finding an entirely new church.

I know it is not always easy to find the right situation . . . but as Angel mentioned - Episcopal churches are very open to gay couples and the services are very similar to Catholic services (liturgy is almost identical). I would think about that.

Try to find some way to compromise so you can attend together and make it a meaningful growth experience for you both as partners as well as for your precious babies.
Yeah, I keep going back to that being important to me for us all to be together as a family. I guess I just have to wait and see what he does - see if he finds another church, and then give him time to make sure he wants to stick with it before moving. In the mean time, I'll just take one twin at a time with me to church.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:51 PM
 
877 posts, read 2,073,613 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
So YOU say. I was raised in a strict xtian household and when I grew up and left my parents' house I quit going to church and became an agnostic. I raised my kids to think for themselves, and I exposed them to many different belief systems including mine. Yet I didn't tell them that any one way was the only true way, nor did I insist that they believe how I believe. I encouraged them to think for themselves and reinforced the idea that religion or lack thereof is a PERSONAL choice that one can only make for themselves.

They grew up well-adjusted, happy, and not confused at all.
I must have misread the OP then. Let me go back and check...

Quote:
Any suggestions as to what I should do?
Hm, looks like he was asking for suggestions. By golly it looks like he was inviting opinion into this thread! Yes, it is my opinion that having a solid moral foundation stabilizes a child. But here my opinion is backed up with personal experiences.

I'm sure your opinion is as well. Your parents taught you a solid moral foundation and you grew up to be a fine parent who raised well-adjusted kids. Obviously the method worked.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,157,142 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
I must have misread the OP then. Let me go back and check...


Hm, looks like he was asking for suggestions. By golly it looks like he was inviting opinion into this thread! Yes, it is my opinion that having a solid moral foundation stabilizes a child. But here my opinion is backed up with personal experiences.

I'm sure your opinion is as well. Your parents taught you a solid moral foundation and you grew up to be a fine parent who raised well-adjusted kids. Obviously the method worked.
Yes, opinions are welcome!
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