U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 09-28-2008, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 4,016,863 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
One of the foundation beliefs in the Christian religion is that when Jesus was crucified and died on the cross that he died for our sins. For those of you who know me, you know I'm not asking that in some sarcastic manner, I just honestly have never understood what that even means. First of all, Christians also believe that Jesus arose from the dead and that he's living right now so he really isn't really dead afterall. So here's a few questions about this situation. If Jesus hadn't died for our sins how would that have changed the circumstances of the lives of every human being? What exactly does it mean when Christians say he died for our sins? Are you saying that even though Jesus didn't commit the sins committed by billions of human beings that it erased their bad behavior and somehow changed the fundamental situation they would be facing and gave them an opportunity for eternal life which they otherwise would not have had? I've really never heard anyone explain this whole scenario in simple, easy to understand language that actually makes sense and yet this is one of the core principles of the Christian religion. Can anyway explain this in layman's terms without quoting the Bible and simply lay out their thoughts in an easy to understand manner?
I'll try to keep this brief, and in my own words.
In times past, the Jewish high priest would offer a sacrifice ( usaully a spotless lamb ) for the expiation of the sins. It was believed that God required a blood sacrifice to even things out so to speak, and this sacrifice would take place periodically.
(You may remember the passover story with the blood placed on the doors of the jews.)
Very simply, Jesus is the final perfect sacrifice. That is why sometimes He is referred to as " The Lamb of God "
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-28-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,238,852 times
Reputation: 1204
In addition to what has been shared, to me to sin is to miss the mark and according to God we have all missed the mark. We may believe that we are good persons but we all fall short in God's eyes. We were born into a death state. We were all born to be sinners and the result of that sin is death. It is because of death (due to Adam's actions) that we sin and it is into death we remain until Jesus breaks the bonds of death, which He did when He died on the cross and rose from the grave. Death no longer has dominion, power over us because Jesus ultimately annulled its power. Jesus died for our sins meaning that we no longer have to be slaves to sin, lost, perishing, without hope, having no relationship with God, but can become overcomers in this age and in the age to come. God revealed His heart when Jesus went to the cross and it shows how much He loves us. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-28-2008 at 06:33 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Swamps of Florida
3,429 posts, read 6,351,023 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
We were born into a death state. We were all born to be sinners and the result of that sin is death. It is because of death (due to Adam's actions) that we sin and it is into death we remain until Jesus breaks the bonds of death, which He did when He died on the cross and rose from the grave.
Speaking of death, i have a question regarding an original sin. What if there was no sin, what if Eve did not eat the apple and all that stuff, would it mean that humans would never die?

Also, what evidence is there to believe that actual resurrection happened? Because body of Jesus was missing, how does it proof he was resurrected?

I'm confused on those parts, along with the original OP question.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,020 posts, read 16,655,081 times
Reputation: 9613
Sheesh...I think you guys need to get a room....Montana and June that is!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2008, 09:12 PM
 
12,346 posts, read 14,142,058 times
Reputation: 14506
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
If Jesus hadn't died for our sins how would that have changed the circumstances of the lives of every human being? What exactly does it mean when Christians say he died for our sins? Are you saying that even though Jesus didn't commit the sins committed by billions of human beings that it erased their bad behavior and somehow changed the fundamental situation they would be facing and gave them an opportunity for eternal life which they otherwise would not have had? I've really never heard anyone explain this whole scenario in simple, easy to understand language that actually makes sense and yet this is one of the core principles of the Christian religion. Can anyway explain this in layman's terms without quoting the Bible and simply lay out their thoughts in an easy to understand manner?
I probably should stay out of this thread since I am not your average/typical christian..I just read the bible along with a few history books and do not try to interpret differently from what I read ..Some parts of the bible I believe are protected by God and other parts were strictly the writings of faithful people to ancient tribes who knew nothing of God...
So my answers will not be strictly based on the bible, but on the understanding that comes from inside of me known as the spirit of God.

If Jesus had not died for not only for our personal sins, but for ALL sin which includes death,(which is the result of sin) I don't believe the world would be any different, because we would still have our moral code..and we would still make choices about how to behave..There would still be good people and bad people..However when we die we would just be dead..Worm food as you atheistrs call it..My opinion is the same these old bodies will be worm food..for a time.

Jesus died to overcome all sin which according to the "good book" is the reason we die..Christians believe that God created Adam and Eve in perfect bodies that could have lived forever, but they sinned and their bodies were as corrupt as they were. and they began to die just as we are said to begin to die at birth...(because of sin, not the baby's sin,they are innocent but because of the sinful nature of the world)..

God wanted us to know he loved us and desired us to love him in return..To prove this he sent his son to pay the price of for all our sins. His death was the final sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins...He allowed some to see his son in a perfect body after his death so we would know that we would also live again..

It is all about belief, love, repentance, forgiveness and eternal life and most of all that word that really cannot be explained....
"faith"
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2008, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
2,320 posts, read 3,628,078 times
Reputation: 1032
Default it's a Roman Catholic teaching

probably. The Truth is Jesus gave us a 2,000 year dispensation to clean up our sins/karma before the New Age. His crucifixtion did not pay the bill on our karmas permanently, we were given a 2,000 year respite. I believe everyone here has been reincarnating for the last 2,000 years. Either you've grown spiritually during that time or you haven't. Now the bill is due and Jesus isn't paying for what we've done in past lives anymore. That is the Truth whether you like it or not.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,917 posts, read 10,933,188 times
Reputation: 5288
catrinac wrote:
Quote:
I believe everyone here has been reincarnating for the last 2,000 years.
How exactly would that work when 2,000 years ago the world population was probably just a few million people (just a guess) and today it's over 6 billion? Wouldn't you need a population that remained at a fixed number in order to have a body to pop into once your old one had died?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2008, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Junius Heights
1,245 posts, read 1,846,199 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
One of the foundation beliefs in the Christian religion is that when Jesus was crucified and died on the cross that he died for our sins.
Ther is an ever increasing movement, within the Christian faith that does not feel this belief is accurate, or should be the foundation of the faith. From extremely well know figures, to local parish priests, and congregation ministers. Obviously this is a controversial, but it is a fast growing one and any one seriously exploring this should be familiar with it. There is an idea that this was an explination of and for it's time rotted in the idea of animal sacrifices as atonement for sins, and was a way of explaining an experience beyond words, to a first century mind.
Perhaps, a way of showing that Jesus pointed the way to the divine, that through him one could see God, and that sacrificing a life was not the way to God.

Again clearly a contraversial view but one worth considering. For an interesting beginning you might check out Bishop Spong's approach (no scripture in this link either ) in his 12 theses, and call for new Reformation.

A Call for a New Reformation (http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/reform.html - broken link)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Junius Heights
1,245 posts, read 1,846,199 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
catrinac wrote:

How exactly would that work when 2,000 years ago the world population was probably just a few million people (just a guess) and today it's over 6 billion? Wouldn't you need a population that remained at a fixed number in order to have a body to pop into once your old one had died?

Carlin used to have a good bit about this.
it ended "Someone has been printing up souls, and it lowers their value"
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
2,320 posts, read 3,628,078 times
Reputation: 1032
Default so you can keep your sense of "reality", this is your first embodiment on the Earth, EVER, and your last

I knew someone would write something along these lines. What I meant was, everyone who is here has had at least ONE embodiment PROBABLY on this planet, ok maybe not in the last 2,000 years, within the last 50, 60 or 70,000 years!!!. The point is that the people who followers of Jesus the Christ are KARMICALLY CONNECTED from past lives. He paid for our sins the last 2,000 years but not anymore. Now the karmic debts from tens of thousands of years have fallen due, and I dare you to argue me down on that.

I'm sorry I challenged your sense of reality. You are free to believe whatever works best for you. My beliefs should in no way threaten yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
catrinac wrote:
How exactly would that work when 2,000 years ago the world population was probably just a few million people (just a guess) and today it's over 6 billion? Wouldn't you need a population that remained at a fixed number in order to have a body to pop into once your old one had died?
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top