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I never had a male seminary teacher. 4 different ladies over a period of 4 years. Completely volunteer work, which is saying a lot, because we were a handful...
Again we are talking about seminary held at a school with paid teachers (who are men btw because the church would never want to hire a woman due to the 'proclamation to the world' that states women should not work, they should stay home).
Early morning seminary held at your church and taught by women who volunteer is perfectly fine...hence it's taught at your church, not the public school.
It is interesting though that the same job is a paid job for the men, and yet the women who do the same job "called" to volunteer their time.
Again we are talking about seminary held at a school with paid teachers (who are men btw because the church would never want to hire a woman due to the 'proclamation to the world' that states women should not work, they should stay home).
Early morning seminary held at your church and taught by women who volunteer is perfectly fine...hence it's taught at your church, not the public school.
It is interesting though that the same job is a paid job for the men, and yet the women who do the same job "called" to volunteer their time.
Seminary is never taught in public school buildings. In Utah, a lot of schools have private Church-owned buildings near public schools, but not on public school grounds. There is no public funding for LDS seminary.
As for teacher gender, I can only give my experience with early morning seminary. I had 3 male and one female teachers. And even early morning seminary teachers get paid. Not much, but a little bit.
Do you know how many paid, full-time seminary teachers are male vs. female? If so, how did you get this data? I don't have that data, and I don't know where to get it.
If it is only your anecdotal observation, is your observation correct, is it universal, and is it accurate?
It sounds like there's a disagreement as to whether this activity is taking place at the school or not. If this is something that is not funded by taxpayer dollars, occurs outside of the normal school hours, and is located someplace other than a public school there's absolutely nothing wrong with that in terms of separation of church and state, favoritism for a particular religion, etc. I doubt that this is really happening at a public school because the courts have consistently ruled against this sort of thing. If the description of the seminary is accurate then this is something that any religion could organize if it wanted to. The freedom of religion and the separation of church and state are not difficult to understand. Because a student happens to attend classes at a public school on any particular day has no relevance as to how they spend the rest of their day.
If this is something that is not funded by taxpayer dollars, occurs outside of the normal school hours, and is located someplace other than a public school there's absolutely nothing wrong with that in terms of separation of church and state, favoritism for a particular religion, etc.
The controversy (in the minds of some), is that high school students are allowed to leave school grounds for one period during the school day, to attend off-campus religious instruction. The courts have also upheld this kind of release time as long as the opportunity is given all religions. Which it is.
Again we are talking about seminary held at a school with paid teachers (who are men btw because the church would never want to hire a woman due to the 'proclamation to the world' that states women should not work, they should stay home).
Early morning seminary held at your church and taught by women who volunteer is perfectly fine...hence it's taught at your church, not the public school.
It is interesting though that the same job is a paid job for the men, and yet the women who do the same job "called" to volunteer their time.
Well, from this happily working woman/mom, I won't bother getting into the finer points of why I don't feel slighted in any way, or treated unequally, as an LDS woman. That's a whole other topic I suppose...
But regarding seminary… the difference isn't gender when it comes to employment. The difference is whether or not there's a need for a full-time paid position due to a high concentration of LDS youth in an area. I recently moved from Colorado Springs where they had release time in one of their school districts also. Teachers of both genders. Makes sense to me that in some areas you would want a guaranteed full-time paid position, versus a voluntary rotational position in areas with less of a need. From what I understand, those paid seminary teachers are teaching more than one class of kids during the day, hence it's more than volunteer work, it's a full-time job.
But yeah, release time is just that. Release time from school. It's off school grounds, paid for by private church funds, no school credit given. Simple as that. No worries…
Seminary is never taught in public school buildings. In Utah, a lot of schools have private Church-owned buildings near public schools, but not on public school grounds. There is no public funding for LDS seminary.
As for teacher gender, I can only give my experience with early morning seminary. I had 3 male and one female teachers. And even early morning seminary teachers get paid. Not much, but a little bit.
Do you know how many paid, full-time seminary teachers are male vs. female? If so, how did you get this data? I don't have that data, and I don't know where to get it.
If it is only your anecdotal observation, is your observation correct, is it universal, and is it accurate?
It is my observation from attending seminary or "released time" myself. My drama teacher was very active in the church and wanted to get a job as a seminary teacher and she was turned down because she was female. All the seminary teachers were male from my experience.
The seminary building is usually across the street from the school just like another building would be so it is within walking distance but is technically not on school grounds.
Well, from this happily working woman/mom, I won't bother getting into the finer points of why I don't feel slighted in any way, or treated unequally, as an LDS woman. That's a whole other topic I suppose...
In your last sentence you say " I would understand if tax dollars were paying for all of it." Does that mean that tax dollars are paying for "some" of it? I hope not!
I can tell you your taxes dont pay for a dare thing the LDS church does , they own there own land and buildings and seminary has nothing to with your taxes either its in there buildings. and the federal goverment funding the schools I need to see proof of that one, school funding is state and local taxes you live in Utah you pay for the schools in your area just like I do and when my last child graduates i'll still be paying school taxes.
No, this is taking place in the middle of school hours. This is the issue at hand.
Quote:
The courts have also upheld this kind of release time as long as the opportunity is given all religions. Which it is.
My problem is that it is only for religion. Why can't my child take some kind of ethnic class, why must it be religion? What about folk dancing if that is a part of my culture? Why does that not qualify?
It should apply to any class not offerred by the school.
Period.
No, this is taking place in the middle of school hours. This is the issue at hand.
My problem is that it is only for religion. Why can't my child take some kind of ethnic class, why must it be religion? What about folk dancing if that is a part of my culture? Why does that not qualify?
It should apply to any class not offerred by the school.
Period.
Despite our previous exchanges, now that I understand you aren't singling out only the LDS religon, I actually don't disagree with you. You should seek to change the law to expand what it covers --cultural activities if you feel that strongly about it. It's not an unreasonable request.
But if that does not happen, I still believe, and the courts have upheld, that it is a reasonable accomodation given that any religion can use the release time classes.
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