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Old 02-11-2007, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,525 posts, read 5,822,816 times
Reputation: 5765

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elishan View Post
That question is an absolute no-brainer.

Why do you oppose understanding other lifestyles and viewpoints? Surely if your faith is strong and your conviction true, then you should have no problem exploring the world outside of your belief system.

What do you fear?
I have nothing to fear. And I don't oppose other lifestyles. I don't agree with some of them, but I will not treat someone badly because I don't agree with their choices. However, when it comes to my children that is where I draw the line. They are not old enough to have the understanding of the faith, and to be given two opposing lifestyles can be confusing to a child. It is my choice on how to raise my child. It is their choice to decide what they will believe and accept in life. I as a parent will do my best to lead them in what I believe is the truth. I pray they choose to accept that truth and live their lives accordingly. But ultimately they have their own choices to make and if they choose to go a different way I will still love and accept them in my family.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:27 PM
 
Location: South
1,624 posts, read 988,005 times
Reputation: 8585
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier67 View Post
Why is it accepted in our society to slam Christians, but if you speak out about not agreeing with gays, Muslims or any other group you're deemed as a hateful Christian?

I get so tired of people slamming my faith, making fun of my faith and saying that I'm an idiot for believing on faith that God created the earth, that Jesus died for my sins and that there is as heaven and a hell.

And people who mock those of us who are "born again". What's that all about? They choose not to try and understand what born again means. Here's the meaning: it's not a physical rebirth. It's a spiritual one. We are made up of a body and spirit. When you are born again, it means your spirit comes alive and is in union (tune) with God.

Instead of slamming Christians, mocking us and crying that we are hateful because we disagree with another person or community's life choices, please realize you are doing the same thing to us.
It's not okay, of course. And I am speaking to Christians now because what I say will be twisted and misconstrued unless you are a Christian. Being "slammed" is very Biblical...it's called persecution. From the beginning and especially at the end we will forever be persecuted. Stand firm and don't argue. One response was half right. Living by example should speak volumes, but we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

That's why there is a whole thread about Ted Haggerty....we are expected as professing Christians to be perfect. Satan and his army of fallen angels are standing by waiting to expose so-called Christians so we can be "slammed". Remember, it is of Satan and we can't be disheartened by others mistakes. It's an hourly battle to live for Christ and seperating yourself from all temptations is a must, not a "well I know I shouldn't do that but after all I'm only human".

A good book to read on being "Totally Secure" is named just that. It is written by Rev. Donald Wilton and it is a must read for Christians in my opinion. There are no definite answers and we can be safe in the knowledge that God says that He knows our hearts, regardless of our stupid sins. Stand strong, sweetheart, for this too shall pass and we will live eternally with our Lord and Saviour. One day to us is as 1000 years to God. We don't know when He's coming...no one does. We just know that He is.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:28 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 267,015 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
But to tell me I shouldn't talk about my faith to others is wrong. My life will hopefully speak to others about who I am, but there are definitely times to share my faith with those who are interested in hearing it. If they don't want to hear, then I don't share.
Don't speak to others about your faith, nothing irritates me more than some guy trying to tell about the excellence of their choices. You might as well say, "Excuse me sir, your choices are invalid, mine are valid."

I have no interest, and neither do most people, in your choices. I know that Jesus supposedly said to spread your faith, but I am not so sure he did. Jesus was Jewish and they have little tradition of missionary work, for that reason alone I admire them.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:32 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 267,015 times
Reputation: 350
Look, it is fine that Christians have faith in their faith, that does not mean it has anymore validity than Romans pulling chickens apart to check their gizzards before acting. Gizzard checking must have been valid, since the Romans did so doggoned good at conquering with Gizzard approval.

If you were to sit down and read the Dead Sea Scrolls you will find that the key components of Christianity, including the characteristics of Jesus were inplace and operative in the Qumran monastic community, 100 years before his birth.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:35 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 24,016,088 times
Reputation: 5787
"Do you have a problem with tolerance? Jesus didn't"


Please show me where in the Bible that the word "tolerate" or "tolerance" is even mentioned and that a Christian is to be "tolerant" of others? You can't. Why? Because it is not in there. Nowhere in the Bible is tolerance taught. Love is and that is a WHOLE different thing. As Christians we are taught to "love the sinner but not the sin". Love is NOT tolerance. Tolerance is putting up w/ someones bad behavior. Love is loving the person no matter their behavior and helping them find love in their own hearts.

"It has much to do with hypocrisy. If Jesus is love, then nothing should come from a Christian except love.
It has to do with self righteousness, if a person says, you must believe as I do or you are damned, then that person is rightfully subject to scorn.
If Christian say one thing, yet do another, they paint the whole tribe."

Sorry but many times in Jesus' life on earth he condemned believers and his own disciples as did Paul in his many writings to the church. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that humans or believers in Christ are without sin. "For we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Christians are also called upon to help out their fellow believers when they have turned astray from Him. That IS in the Bible. It's not judging one another but being a brotherly Christian to help them see the er of their way. It does not say to stand them up in front of the church in front of everyone and mock them but rather to go to them and help council them. HUGE difference. Of course there are those that do differently and feel the need to intrepret the Bible in their own way but that does not make it right. Sadly this is the picture that nonbelievers see and chose to "paint the whole tribe". The majority of Christians are not like that and if the nonbeliever so choses to "paint the whole tribe" based solely on the few without knowing the Bible themselves and Christ as their saviour, then they are just as bad and guilty of judging others harshly w/o knowing and not practicing "love" or "tolerance" themselves.


"Stop prostyletizing and start walking the talk--tolerance, peace and justice."

The Bible calls for Christians to spread the word. If we don't then we are guilty of disobeying Gods commandments to us. It does not mean that we have to go out w/ 1000 lb Bibles and beat salvation into everyone. It just means that we are to spread the word. By saying things like "If you continue to invalidate my beliefs, you leave me very few choices--I am chosing to fight back" you are furthering the truth of the Bible and what is written in it. That as God's people we will be punished for believing in Him and speaking out in public of believing in Him. Again, show me where in the Bible that "tolerance, peace and justice" is taught? When you do I'll show you the many times over and over it is not and God sought revenge against those that turned against Him.

FYI: I'm not posting this to start some kind of religious war but merely to show that what many non believers believe about God being all about "tolerance" is 100% false.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,184 posts, read 18,838,318 times
Reputation: 3694
Toleration and Tolerance are terms used within debates in areas of social, cultural and religious context, to describe attitudes and practices that prohibit discrimination against those whose practices or group memberships may be disapproved of by those in the majority. Though developed to refer to the religious toleration of minority religious sects following the Protestant Reformation, these terms are increasingly used to refer to a wider range of tolerated practices and groups, such as the toleration of sexual practices and orientations, or of political parties or ideas widely considered objectionable.

The term "tolerance" itself, like "toleration," is controversial and disliked by some due to its implication that the "tolerated" custom or behavior is in fact an aberration. Tolerance implies both the ability to punish and the conscious decision not to, but makes no statement to higher principle. Supporters of the term tolerance claim it to be more applicable than acceptance and respect. Detractors of the term suggest that the term is promoted as if it were a principle one which falters when compared to more elevated concepts such as respect and civility.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,184 posts, read 18,838,318 times
Reputation: 3694
Let's look at this site and see that although the word "tolerance" does not appear in the New Testament, and only is referred to in the Old Testament, the implications--the intent was to be forgiving--tolerant.

Check it out and tell me that Christ didn't exhibit tolerance:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/tol_bibl.htm
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:51 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 267,015 times
Reputation: 350
Well, let us start with ,"let he who is without sin cast the first stone." If that is not advocation for tolerance, what is?

The nice thing about Christians, is that no matter what bizarre thinking they come up with they justify it with the bible.

But that brings up a few questions, Paul (a major league twit by the way) told women never to cut their hair, have you ever cut yours? Paul said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, he didn't and you didn't.

If there is eternal life for Christians, why do the get upset when a loved one dies? Seems like they would all run out in front of a bus.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,184 posts, read 18,838,318 times
Reputation: 3694
You know, hoosier67, I hardly think you have your facts in order here. This is a Christian society--to about 90%, I'd reckon. (I'm not going to look it up right now).

I don't believe that people, in the general and broadest sense are making fun of you because after all you are probably surrounded by others of your faith. Aren't you?

Where I live each Sunday, 80% of the folks go to Church. They are all Christian of one denomination or another--here mostly Catholic.

So who are all these folks slamming you, or not understanding born again.

But I do wonder if you were born once why that single life isn't specific to spirituality and needs to be reborn. But that probably is my ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier67 View Post
Why is it accepted in our society to slam Christians, but if you speak out about not agreeing with gays, Muslims or any other group you're deemed as a hateful Christian?

I get so tired of people slamming my faith, making fun of my faith and saying that I'm an idiot for believing on faith that God created the earth, that Jesus died for my sins and that there is as heaven and a hell.

And people who mock those of us who are "born again". What's that all about? They choose not to try and understand what born again means. Here's the meaning: it's not a physical rebirth. It's a spiritual one. We are made up of a body and spirit. When you are born again, it means your spirit comes alive and is in union (tune) with God.

Instead of slamming Christians, mocking us and crying that we are hateful because we disagree with another person or community's life choices, please realize you are doing the same thing to us.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,184 posts, read 18,838,318 times
Reputation: 3694
Yes, Paul was more than a twit. You probably missed the thread where I said I'd have had more faith () if Peter ran the show, but Paul took over and changed the course of Catholic history until St. Augustine came along and mucked it up forever. (What a great run-on sentence).


Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Well, let us start with ,"let he who is without sin cast the first stone." If that is not advocation for tolerance, what is?

The nice thing about Christians, is that no matter what bizarre thinking they come up with they justify it with the bible.

But that brings up a few questions, Paul (a major league twit by the way) told women never to cut their hair, have you ever cut yours? Paul said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, he didn't and you didn't.

If there is eternal life for Christians, why do the get upset when a loved one dies? Seems like they would all run out in front of a bus.
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