Does God Exists? (paradise, Adam, verse, Earth)

[skeptic griggsy]

We rationalists demand evidence in order to avoid the scams of supertstition. Where is the evidence for the Biblical miracles when in fact they would be court-disapproved hearsay? The lack of evidence show there was no stay in Egypt, no Exodus and no Yahweh-sanctioned genocide.
Steve, like seeing Yeshua in a tortilla, you are makiing the pareidolia of seeing a caring divine intelligence directing mindless natural selection and other forces to have us come upon the scene of life when it would contradict the weight of evidence that there are no predetermined plans for us to arrive, and thus would contradict planless natural selection, Nature's anti-chance agency that works as a sieve in building new life forms.That mere pareidolia results from the mere feeling that there must be an intelligence that gives purpose to life, and your proof as with all religious experience is just ones own mental states at work. To argue for God implanting the experiences would be assuming what one should first show. Your conviction is on the level with the Jihadist's, even though you have better fruit.
Faith is as I so state and is the foundation for the scam of religion.
And one commits the fallacy of equivocation is trying to make equal trust and the other meaning of faith.
Faith cannot move mountains but is sure can delude the gullible, even the most learned.

[little elmer]

If there was evidence to support the spirit world, it would no longer be spirit, but natural. Only with faith can we please God. (Heb 11:6)

[Nero777]

Originally Posted by skeptic griggsy

We rationalists demand evidence in order to avoid the scams of supertstition. Where is the evidence for the Biblical miracles when in fact they would be court-disapproved hearsay? The lack of evidence show there was no stay in Egypt, no Exodus and no Yahweh-sanctioned genocide.
Steve, like seeing Yeshua in a tortilla, you are makiing the pareidolia of seeing a caring divine intelligence directing mindless natural selection and other forces to have us come upon the scene of life when it would contradict the weight of evidence that there are no predetermined plans for us to arrive, and thus would contradict planless natural selection, Nature's anti-chance agency that works as a sieve in building new life forms.That mere pareidolia results from the mere feeling that there must be an intelligence that gives purpose to life, and your proof as with all religious experience is just ones own mental states at work. To argue for God implanting the experiences would be assuming what one should first show. Your conviction is on the level with the Jihadist's, even though you have better fruit.
Faith is as I so state and is the foundation for the scam of religion.
And one commits the fallacy of equivocation is trying to make equal trust and the other meaning of faith.
Faith cannot move mountains but is sure can delude the gullible, even the most learned.

What sources are you using to disprove the exodus and the earlier events of the OT? If it is just your belief then it is mere conjecture on your part. Secondly, we need to consider Jesus Christ. Despite what some hard-headed atheists out there will tell you, Jesus was a real historical figure. We have accounts coming from the Bible, from Josephus, Pliny, Tiberius, the Sanhedrin accounts, and various Roman and Greek scholars who all say that Jesus was real, His ministry was real, that His crucifixion was real. I know you are probably going to probably say, "but it doesn't prove he was divine, even if he was real". In a sense, you would be right. But then you have to look at the disciples and Paul. These men all claimed to see the resurrected Christ and they all paid for it with their lives. We have accounts from the Sanhedrin and Roman scholars that can support some of these deaths. Why did they choose to die if they knew he didn't come back? It simply doesn't make sense. I agree with you in that I don't believe putting trust in your moods and feelings is the way to show faith, but you can't just say that people are so gullible either. There are plenty of historians and scholars who have dedicated their lives to understanding the Bible and the events that unfolded during Jesus' ministry, many are convinced, others aren't. Finally, what makes you so sure that your views are right. You questioned the Bible's accounts, what do you have to support your views?

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Actually, Paul only saw Jesus in a vision, and there is huge debate over whether the disciples actually even wrote their books in the bible.

And if Jesus can show himself to Paul in a vision, then he can show anyone. Yet he does not.

[Nero777]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

Actually, Paul only saw Jesus in a vision, and there is huge debate over whether the disciples actually even wrote their books in the bible.

And if Jesus can show himself to Paul in a vision, then he can show anyone. Yet he does not.

I might have to disagree with you somewhat. A vision means that the mind perceives the image, but it isn't really there; if we take Paul's word, he was knocked down by the light of Jesus and was blinded for several days, by his own admission. Could he by lying? Possibly, but why would he willingly lose his own life for something he knows is a lie? Furthermore, it still doesn't make sense. Why would a man who is powerful Pharisee, who is highly respected, and who has been killing Christians since the death of Jesus suddenly do a 180 and become the most devout follower of his time? Again, we have to look at the Roman texts that mention his death; it was real, so why did he die for it? Even if it was a vision, it doesn't explain why he converted and completely changed the layout of Christianity before his death. I am also aware of the debate you mentioned about the disciples and whether or not they did write the Gospels. You are right, we can't be fully sure. However, we have been able to corroborate with some external sources to determine that quite a few events of the New Testament were accurate. Refer to some of the sources mentioned in my previous post. In regards to the last part, yes Jesus can show himself to anyone. But He doesn't. Why? I believe because to show himself in this day and age would take away from our faith. We would believe by fact alone and it would completely destroy the purpose of the relationship. But that's just me.

[carneadesthatesstratoofga]

Nero, people die for falsehoods all the time as the Hale Bopp people did! Paul's visions rank with Muhammad's- as with all religious experience, from people's own minds at work, and people beg the question when they suggest that those are supernatural experiences.
Most of the Christian Testament is one forgery after another: the Gospels are anonymous, without any verification for the authors' reliability, and people forged some of the epistles attributed to that hallucinator Paul, himself unverified as reliable.
Those extra-biblical sources rely on Christians so that no rational persons would find them as reliable.
Archaeologists no longer go with Bible in one hand and a spade in the other; they learned that whilst it could verify towns and kings, it could not verify events. Some excavated where the Hebrews supposedly trotted and found no evidence where mountains of evidence should be. The Exodus account is silly anyway!
A rational being does not harden someones heart so as to have more carnage ensue! Forty years for a ten day journey bespeaks nonsense. Why would a rational being murder people having other gods: thankfully our First Amendment means that I don' t have to abide by those first four commandments of the ten!
Read such as " The Unauthorized Version" and " Who were the Israelites and Where Did They come from?" They were Canaanites! This is what scholars,not apologists find to be true. David and Solomon were probably chieftains, and Jerusalem at that time was just a picayune village!
People harm themselves by not letting new knowledge soak in, and indeed, that very knowledge so threatens their false beliefs that they hold onto them more tightly. When they feel that Satan is inveighing against them, they have that pre-established excuse not to let that knowledge soak in!
No, that hardly applies here to us rationalists!
Skeptic Griggsy

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Nero777

A common thing I hear from most atheists is that they believe God doesn't exist simply because there is no evidence to prove His existence; they believe Him to be a fabrication of our minds and nothing more than something to fall back on during the tough times of our lives. How are you, as CHRISTIANS, certain that God exists? What evidence do you feel supports your view and why does it? I look forward to hearing from you.

An empty tomb convinces me God exists.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Nero777

But the atheist cling to evolution as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the Origins of the Species. Annoying isn't it?

Annoying that this stupifying interpretation is what Christian denialist and intransigents assume to be how we came to our infalible conclusions, based on literally millions of independent research studies from every conceivable angle and focus.

On The Origin of The Species, which I'll happily bet you have not read or perhaps even held, was a very early suggestion that simply tried to speculate on what Dr. Charles Darwin so obviously and so carefully and meticulously observed, documented and illustrated, in the total absence of any knowlege of DNA, RNA, or any of the now-known and well studied processes of Evolution. He was therefore far more demonstrably insightful, objective and socially courageous than you. You try to "straw-man" with stupid & invalid arguments. Nice try, but it only serves to show your vast and seemingly preferred technical incompetence on this issue.

Yet, you obviously have obviously and purposefully chosen to not move beyond those brainless and obtuse lies from AiG or The Creation Museum websites and their blatantly mis-informed explanations, conflating Evolution with Abiogenesis, for instance, or with the formation of the Universe.

All certifed hog-twaddle, and very easily shown to be. At least to those with their eyes open....

But, it's certainly not my job here to correct their's or your wildly innacurate concepts and perceptions, except to say:

You could not be more wrong. Evolution is SIMPLY a shift in the organism's functionality, due to observable (oh, and very easily documented mutations and/or transcription errors plus other now-known mechanisms which do reliably, yep, cause shifts in an organism's genotype.

Else ,we'd all be the exact genetic copies of each other, which clearly ain't so. And so... uuuhhhmmm... errrr... just why is that diversity out there? You'll want to deny that too I suppose... <sigh>

(btw, please....Look up any of those 50¢ words if/n they stump you..).

So... when our genotype (our inarguable genetic code sequences and relationships...) changes, our phenotype (the outward expression of that genetic makeup) must and obviously does change.

[You deny this too? Probably...]

Over time, when it changes sufficiently from a previous snap-shot DNA genome version [that Missing Link..], then voila, we're officially a different species. And probably then unable to reproduce with the older genotype, and typically moves physically distant into a better niche-fit situation.

Thus, ground-based great apes left the very tree tops as their bodies (i.e.: phenotypes via genotypes) adapted to a better "fit" in a jungle floor environment! "WOWOW! That's Just....Just... Awesome!" PTL!"

Which left the now-vacated treetops for the smaller & more lithe, better adapted monkeys or chimps. Simple, huh? And logical as well! Innit just "Awesome" how Evolution works?

But yeah: OK: call it all assumptive and a scientific fairy-tale. Your version is SO much better with it's Insta-Poof God blink-a-winking it all into existance out of nothing... again... out of NOTHING, I'll add in here, plus out of proper logical chrono-sequence I'll add, but that's clearly another thread..)

That'd be our definition of Evolution, not your hair-brained "I'll believe it only when I actually see my cat give birth to a lobster overnight" gross denialistic, technical and biological illiteracy!

If you're happy with advertising that pathological level of scientific literacy and IQ right out here for all to see, then I can't and won't argue with you. But know this... we probably won't ever be in the same social circles huh? How sad... for you at least.

Originally Posted by Nero777

To not believe in any form of a deity is to put faith into evolution and the theories forwarded by Darwin and Gould; you sacrifice one belief system for another.

True, but obviously and reasonably...ours is founded in endless and ongoing peer-reviewed research which you can, if you choose, duplicate in order to really confirm the results for yourself. Q: why have you never done any of these checks and balances? Even the simple ones? Fear? That's be my best guess..

Such objective testing is simply not possible with biblical fairy-tales, but I will have to add: when scientific methods have honestly tried to replicate "water into wine", or "turning one bread loaf into several thousand of them" with nothing but a Certified™ Magic Wand, guess what happens?

Or testing if the entire universe rotates around a flat earth? Or if the sun is truly made of mirrors hung there by angels? Or if Noah's Ark were even remotely possible? Or if Jewish village children actually kept pet T-Rexs or Brontosauri or vicious & carnivorous Velociraptors?

Or any of the otherwise never-mentioned 3-5 million individual dinosaur species, for which we coincidentally DO NOT FIND any remains, fossilized or otherwise, contemporaneous with any archeological digs from the past 100+ years from "modern" Jerusalem or surrounds.

Oh ask me! Ask ME! "The apostles must have collected them all up, each and every tiny bit, and crushed and scattered them!" The only possible explanation, right?

Seems to be a major omission, would you not say?

.................................................. .................

...and so on and so forth.

And yet... Logic always Prevails, and your side/version always loses. But I will say; they do deny with truly ill-educated enthusiasm!

Over time, a certain inarguable score on these pointless arguments has arisen:

God: ZERO,

Science: 1000^18th power.

So Be It!

[Atheist Liberal]

Which god? People are atheist to a bunch of god/gods that humans have created like the Greek gods or the Egyptian gods. So why not just be atheist to all of the gods?

[jambo101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero777
But the atheist cling to evolution as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the Origins of the Species. Annoying isn't it?

I doubt many atheists cling to evolution as fact it just sounds more believable than creationism end of story, as for parroting out of the Origins of the Species? i doubt 1 in a hundred people have read it or care about it enough to run around quoting various sayings held within the book, parroting out verses from a book seems to be the realm of the Bible thumpers.
Does God exist? I dont know but if he does i'd like to ask him about all the pain and suffering we have to endure, the many deaths of children and innocents,When i saw my neighbors house burn down and 3 children get burned to death i'll never understand how the all perfect God could let that happen, Dude it seems to me if you are gonna go to the trouble of creating a universe couldnt you have cut us a bit of slack in the grand scheme of things? Annoying? you betcha!!