Does God Exists? (Buddhist, church, priest, Muslims)

[Nero777]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Straw man indeed.....Where did I state as a fact that God does not exist? I cannot make that statement, anymore than you can state as a fact that he does. The best either of us can do is believe one way or the other. You fundamentalist are constantly making claims as fact, when in reality all you have is what you believe. Your claims that because it's in the bible its truth or fact, are still just your beliefs.

Well, I am glad that you are willing to admit that there is a possibility that you may be wrong; it's a sign that you are not an idiot. In reference to the fundamentalism, atheists are just as bad as many Christians. I can't have prayer in school, intelligent design can't be taught because the scientific community portrays evolution as a definite fact and that anything else is a mere idea, and I can't even say Merry Christmans anymore, I have to say happy holidays. Atheists keep telling me not to shove religion down their throats, but it seems that atheists are quicker to shove evolution down Christians' throats than vice versa. Even Bill Maher's new film is a indication that atheists are trying in some way, shape, or form to shove their views down the public's throats.

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Who are "you people"? Nobody can explain how life began, and no one except the religious attempt to, but the religious cling to creation as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the bible.

Since when is non belief in a higher power a system?...Would that make non belief in fairy tales a belief system?...See how silly that sounds?

It is too bad that you do not realize that all those beautiful scenery photos that you post on the photography forum are part of God's creation.

[sandgirl]

Originally Posted by marianinark

it is too bad that you do not realize that all those beautiful scenery photos that you post on the photography forum are part of god's creation.

amen!!!

[Jerrydb]

Originally Posted by okThen

I am of no religious persuation and I am not an atheist. Personally, I think it would take a total fool to believe this world happen by some silly chance. I also think it foolish to believe the ignorant OT deity was the intelligence that formed this universe.

The OT is nothing more than how very ignorant and superstitious people viewed 'god'. They believed lightening was proof of his anger and sunshine and rain was proof of his goodness. This god did not know much about the world he is said to have created and the entire bible is over flowing with errors and contradictions. Most honest theologians will tell you that the five books said to have been written my Moses were not written until hundreds of years after the supposed death of Moses. It is believed that Ezra and Nehemiah were the authors of those books.

Moses speaks of cities, minted coins and also kings and rulers who did not exist for hundreds of years later.

There is at least a 600 year gap from the time of Moses and Joshua that the books of Moses were not even known until the time of Josiah. So much for the 'oral tradition'. At that time his 'preists' claimed to have found those writings in the old temple and urged Josiah to go to a prophetess to authenticate them. He did this and she assured him they were indeed the works of Moses. On this word Josiah led one of the bloodiest campaigns in the bible. He had been assured this 'god' would aid and bless him and he would be victorious and would die in peace. Read the account. It was all a false prophecy and Josiah was killed and there are two different accounts of that recorded. Apparently, as is always the case, the priests were liars and were using Josiah for their benefit. They were in cohoots with this woman 'prophetess' to get Josiah to wipe out all other religions so they could reap the bounty, steal lands and possession and rape the women and little girls. It is quite a story and you must follow all the story lines in the different books of the bible where it is recorded as no preacher will ever do that. The bible tells the complete stories and when you read the whole of them, it is a mess. One place it tells us that Josiah died and he had done what was right in the sight of god. However, when his son takes the throne and dies, it says that his son did that which was evil in the sight of god, according to all that his fathers had done before him. People, that means that all his fathers before him upon the throne had done evil. As with all the bible stories, there are at least two versions so take your pick. That is what everyone does.

Yahweh was one of dozens of madeup tribal gods and the bible proves that point. History is written by the winners and unfortunately, the winners in the religious world are cons and crooks who use the bible to control the blind masses and get rich. Man creates god in his own image. It is a total insult to attribute that horrid filthy book to the power that created this universe.

It only takes one account of this god condoning rape of a child to prove this is not of a holy god. I would march off to hell with my head high before I served such a monstrous creature even if it did exist.

I will only comment on this. I don't want to discuss it, but I will say to all that read this. Read second Chronicles 34:28.... its god that's going to bring the evil on this nation. It was not one of the bloodiest campaigns in the Bible. What was talking about is all the animals that were being sacrificed for Passover. I have a search engine, and I have followed every book that the name of Josiah is written in.
Born again Jerry

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Nero777

Well, I am glad that you are willing to admit that there is a possibility that you may be wrong; it's a sign that you are not an idiot. In reference to the fundamentalism, atheists are just as bad as many Christians. I can't have prayer in school, intelligent design can't be taught because the scientific community portrays evolution as a definite fact and that anything else is a mere idea, and I can't even say Merry Christmans anymore, I have to say happy holidays. Atheists keep telling me not to shove religion down their throats, but it seems that atheists are quicker to shove evolution down Christians' throats than vice versa. Even Bill Maher's new film is a indication that atheists are trying in some way, shape, or form to shove their views down the public's throats.

Non belief is not about evolution. When creationism is able to present as much peer reviewed evidence as evolution then I would have nothing against it being taught in schools, as for prayer, why can you not pray in school? I thought prayer was between you and God...Need you pray aloud? Why can't you say Merry Christmas....I do......As far as me or anyone else shoving evolution down your throat...Is that what you think when atheists disagree with you?

When is the last time an atheist told you you were going to hell if you don't accept atheism? I accept your beliefs and you are welcome to them, but they are not mine...Why do Christians get so upset when they encounter a non believer. Believers do not upset me, but their beliefs interest me...Live and let live and everybody will be much happier

Regarding Bill Maher's movie...Do you really think very many Christians will see it....They would have to, to get his views "shoved down their throat"

[Nero777]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Non belief is not about evolution. When creationism is able to present as much peer reviewed evidence as evolution then I would have nothing against it being taught in schools, as for prayer, why can you not pray in school? I thought prayer was between you and God...Need you pray aloud? Why can't you say Merry Christmas....I do......As far as me or anyone else shoving evolution down your throat...Is that what you think when atheists disagree with you?"

Prayer is something personal, but the point I was trying to make was that atheism has slowly, but surely, crept its way into society and has slowly been chewing away everything that may have some spiritual tie. Spirituality is dying and even though someone like you may not be the problem, there are those who share your beliefs that take it to the extreme and take every oppurtunity to mock and mistreat a spiritual person. In regards to the last question, no, I don't think that every time there is a disagreement between me and an atheist. I only take it as that when an atheist mocks me or tells me that I am foolish because I believe in someone who can't be seen or touch. I am not implying you are one of these people, but ,again, there are those who do that.

Originally Posted by sanspeur

When is the last time an atheist told you you were going to hell if you don't accept atheism? I accept your beliefs and you are welcome to them, but they are not mine...Why do Christians get so upset when they encounter a non believer. Believers do not upset me, but their beliefs interest me...Live and let live and everybody will be much happier

Regarding Bill Maher's movie...Do you really think very many Christians will see it....They would have to, to get his views "shoved down their throat"

I appreciate you for respecting my beliefs and I want you to know that it isn't my intent to attack you or make it appear that I am upset. I am not. To tell you the truth, this is the first time I have met an atheist who was so open and respectful and I appreciate that you aren't going to attack me or try to make me feel inferior. In regards to Bill Maher, many Christians who have their curiosities peaked will go see it, I am one such person. When I regarded his film, I meant that Bill made this film more or less to show how horrible religion can be in our daily lives which has some truth, but it bothers me that his film only looks at the negative aspects of religion; he doesn't even venture to show how some people of the faith actually put their beliefs into practice and try to help people which furthers the whole stereotype that religious people are often the greatest fanatics. He has the right, but I just feel that he is undermining religion intentionally without any other perspectives.

[okThen]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

I agree that to me evolution makes more sense than creation, but it is not my "belief system" You actually think I abandoned Christianity to embrace evolution? Evolution just is, and requires no faith on my part...Abandoning Christianity was not a sacrifice but a great relief for me.

I too am delighted to be rid of religion. Perhaps the Creator planned for evolution and put things in order for that to happen in the course of time. I believe it is none of our business and the only thing we need to do is live honestly, care for humanity and the planet we were put on. Everything else will take care of itself and the hereafter may be of our own making. I can only control what I do and I will only be held accountable for what I do. I can't imagine any power able to create a vast complicated universe to be so small and petty it would demand it's own creation to grovel and worship. If that is not an ignorant manmade concept, there is no such thing.

[okThen]

Originally Posted by Jerrydb

I will only comment on this. I don't want to discuss it, but I will say to all that read this. Read second Chronicles 34:28.... its god that's going to bring the evil on this nation. It was not one of the bloodiest campaigns in the Bible. What was talking about is all the animals that were being sacrificed for Passover. I have a search engine, and I have followed every book that the name of Josiah is written in.
Born again Jerry

I wouldn't want to discuss either if I were you. You are 100% wrong and all you need to see that is to read it in the bible. I have taken the liberty to do the work for you.

In his days Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt went up to the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates. King Josiah went to meet him; and Pharaoh Neco slew him at Megiddo, when he saw him.

And his servants carried him dead in a chariot from Megiddo, and brought him to Jerusalem, and buried him in his own tomb. And the people of the land took Jehoahaz the son of Josiah, and anointed him, and made him king in his father's stead. 2 Kings 23:29-30
Or did he die in Jerusalem? We have two versions to choose from.

And the archers shot King Josiah; and the king said to his servants, "Take me away, for I am badly wounded."
So his servants took him out of the chariot and carried him in his second chariot and brought him to Jerusalem. And he died, and was buried in the tombs of his fathers. All Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah. ](2 Chron. 35:23-24

Huldah the prophetess falsely predicted he would die in peace. Therefore, behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.'" And they brought back word to the king. (2 Kings 22:20)

The irony is that after Josiah died, the Hebrews went back to pagan worship. His son took the throne and this is what the bible says about him and his forefathers..And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done. (2 Kings 23:32)

Also, one other matter we need to show. This is the part in Ist Kings where the Ark was parked in the temple of Solomon and it clearly says that the poles were so long they stuck out into the public area of the temple. No one could miss something like that yet we are expected to believe for 350 years no one noticed this ark and those long long poles that people would have had to walk around! However, when the so-called priest of Josiah went into the temple they just happened to find something no one had seen in plain sight for 350 years.

And King Solomon and all the congregation of Israel, who had assembled before him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing so many sheep and oxen that they could not be counted or numbered. Then the priests brought the ark of the covenant of the LORD to its place, in the inner sanctuary of the house, in the most holy place, underneath the wings of the cherubim. For the cherubim spread out their wings over the place of the ark, so that the cherubim made a covering above the ark and its poles. And the poles were so long that the ends of the poles were seen from the holy place before the inner sanctuary; but they could not be seen from outside; and they are there to this day. There was nothing in the ark except the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the LORD made a covenant with the people of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.(1 Kings 8:5-9)

HERE IS CLEARLY AND PLAINLY TELLS YOU THAT THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE ARK BUT TWO TABLES OF STONE, NOT ANY BOOK, SHEET OF PAPER OR PAPER AIRPLANE! The priests of Josiah and the prophetess were all liars.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Straw man indeed.....Where did I state as a fact that God does not exist? I cannot make that statement, anymore than you can state as a fact that he does. The best either of us can do is believe one way or the other. You fundamentalist are constantly making claims as fact, when in reality all you have is what you believe. Your claims that because it's in the bible its truth or fact, are still just your beliefs.

Ummmmm...just the mere fact. You call yourself an atheist, that is exactly what you are saying. If you can't make that statement then you are NOT an atheist, you are agnostic.

An atheist says, NO GOD! period!

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by okThen

I too am delighted to be rid of religion. Perhaps the Creator planned for evolution and put things in order for that to happen in the course of time. I believe it is none of our business and the only thing we need to do is live honestly, care for humanity and the planet we were put on. Everything else will take care of itself and the hereafter may be of our own making. I can only control what I do and I will only be held accountable for what I do. I can't imagine any power able to create a vast complicated universe to be so small and petty it would demand it's own creation to grovel and worship. If that is not an ignorant manmade concept, there is no such thing.

What if it's God nature to be "grovel" at and be "petty" at. God's nature is to get the glory, therefore we glorify God. God is only following His nature.