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Old 10-05-2008, 08:34 AM
 
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A common thing I hear from most atheists is that they believe God doesn't exist simply because there is no evidence to prove His existence; they believe Him to be a fabrication of our minds and nothing more than something to fall back on during the tough times of our lives. How are you, as CHRISTIANS, certain that God exists? What evidence do you feel supports your view and why does it? I look forward to hearing from you.

 
Old 10-05-2008, 09:08 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,582,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero777 View Post
A common thing I hear from most atheists is that they believe God doesn't exist simply because there is no evidence to prove His existence; they believe Him to be a fabrication of our minds and nothing more than something to fall back on during the tough times of our lives. How are you, as CHRISTIANS, certain that God exists? What evidence do you feel supports your view and why does it? I look forward to hearing from you.
Well, everyone needs to understand why atheist feel the way they do. As to whether or not God does exist, consider mankind's first impression is the failure of most major religions to reflect the qualities of a perfect creator, if indeed such an intelligent being does exist somewhere. I think the hypocritical conduct of most religions in general is a stumbling block to most people of the earth. As time goes on, it becomes worse. There's no doubt that there is a certain element who don't wish to accept any type of accountablitiy to a creator, or to anyone else for that matter. However, those who claim to representives of the creator and creation have been it's worst advocates.

While a person could reason on intelligent design and numerous amazing facts as to the magnificence of the natural world, still, it's tough to get past the idiocy of the many who claim belief. To be fair this has been this way throughout time and not a recent phenonena. I don't think this new thread could possibly hope to make any headway here. These threads turn into a battleground of egos and the last poster likes to consider themselves the winner. Unfortunately the loss is to the rest of us. What a waiste.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 09:52 AM
 
352 posts, read 450,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Well, everyone needs to understand why atheist feel the way they do. As to whether or not God does exist, consider mankind's first impression is the failure of most major religions to reflect the qualities of a perfect creator, if indeed such an intelligent being does exist somewhere. I think the hypocritical conduct of most religions in general is a stumbling block to most people of the earth. As time goes on, it becomes worse. There's no doubt that there is a certain element who don't wish to accept any type of accountablitiy to a creator, or to anyone else for that matter. However, those who claim to representives of the creator and creation have been it's worst advocates.
I agree with you to an extent; the religions of the world do not often reflect the theology their respective creator. However, you are putting the fallibility of mankind on the Creator which is a mistake. Most atheists want to stereotype religious people; it seems often that when you find an extremist or a fundamentalist, you often try to apply that to all religious people. Have you even stopped to consider that maybe there are many good religious people out there who try to follow there beliefs to the best of their ability and actually try to help people? You hear all the time that extremists in the Middle East set off another bomb or a fanatic who goes on a shooting rampage, but do you even hear about people like Mother Teresa and Billy Graham who funded this program or that and helped thousands of people make it through the day? No, people like them exists all over and yet no one even notices them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
While a person could reason on intelligent design and numerous amazing facts as to the magnificence of the natural world, still, it's tough to get past the idiocy of the many who claim belief. To be fair this has been this way throughout time and not a recent phenonena. I don't think this new thread could possibly hope to make any headway here. These threads turn into a battleground of egos and the last poster likes to consider themselves the winner. Unfortunately the loss is to the rest of us. What a waiste.
The point of this thread wasn't to become a battle of egos and wit; it was meant for Christians to look within themselves and evaluate their faith in comparison with ideas that people today are considering as fact. Oh and by the way, when was believing in something or someone a sign of idiocy? Last time I checked, atheists couldn't explain how the first living organism ever was able to form on the earth; they aren't quite sure and they put forth different kinds of theories and ideas, but that is all they are. In the end, in the words of Gould, "we can't let a divine foot in the door"; you people are willing to accept any other theory other than the possibility that there is a divine being working behind the scenes. You dismiss it because it challenges your BELIEF system.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Who are "you people"? Nobody can explain how life began, and no one except the religious attempt to, but the religious cling to creation as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the bible.

Since when is non belief in a higher power a system?...Would that make non belief in fairy tales a belief system?...See how silly that sounds?
 
Old 10-05-2008, 10:46 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,808,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Who are "you people"? Nobody can explain how life began, and no one except the religious attempt to, but the religious cling to creation as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the bible.

Since when is non belief in a higher power a system?...Would that make non belief in fairy tales a belief system?...See how silly that sounds?
<Danger...Danger Will Robinson, strawman alert!?>

First of all it is not logical for atheist to make an absolute statement that God does not exist, even Bill Maher claims he is an agnostic and Richard Dawkins said, he is 9 out of 10 sure that there is no existence of any kind of God.

It takes just as much faith to believe in atheism. To make the absolute statement “God does not exist!” is to make a claim of knowing absolutely everything there is to know about everything – and of having been everywhere in the universe there is to go – and having witnessed everything there is to be seen. Of course, no atheist would make these exact claims. However, that is essentially what they are claiming when they state that God does not exist.

Atheism nor science can disprove the existence of God, therefore by the finely tuned creation, laws of physics/ gravity, order, designed, it is plausible to believe there is a God.

It trips me out how even though 80% of the world believes in God, that the onus is on us to prove the existence of God. I say the onus in on the atheist to disprove.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 12:53 PM
 
352 posts, read 450,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Who are "you people"? Nobody can explain how life began, and no one except the religious attempt to, but the religious cling to creation as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the bible.?
But the atheist cling to evolution as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the Origins of the Species. Annoying isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Since when is non belief in a higher power a system?...Would that make non belief in fairy tales a belief system?...See how silly that sounds?
To not believe in any form of a deity is to put faith into evolution and the theories forwarded by Darwin and Gould; you sacrifice one belief system for another.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 01:56 PM
 
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I am of no religious persuation and I am not an atheist. Personally, I think it would take a total fool to believe this world happen by some silly chance. I also think it foolish to believe the ignorant OT deity was the intelligence that formed this universe.

The OT is nothing more than how very ignorant and superstitious people viewed 'god'. They believed lightening was proof of his anger and sunshine and rain was proof of his goodness. This god did not know much about the world he is said to have created and the entire bible is over flowing with errors and contradictions. Most honest theologians will tell you that the five books said to have been written my Moses were not written until hundreds of years after the supposed death of Moses. It is believed that Ezra and Nehemiah were the authors of those books.

Moses speaks of cities, minted coins and also kings and rulers who did not exist for hundreds of years later.

There is at least a 600 year gap from the time of Moses and Joshua that the books of Moses were not even known until the time of Josiah. So much for the 'oral tradition'. At that time his 'preists' claimed to have found those writings in the old temple and urged Josiah to go to a prophetess to authenticate them. He did this and she assured him they were indeed the works of Moses. On this word Josiah led one of the bloodiest campaigns in the bible. He had been assured this 'god' would aid and bless him and he would be victorious and would die in peace. Read the account. It was all a false prophecy and Josiah was killed and there are two different accounts of that recorded. Apparently, as is always the case, the priests were liars and were using Josiah for their benefit. They were in cohoots with this woman 'prophetess' to get Josiah to wipe out all other religions so they could reap the bounty, steal lands and possession and rape the women and little girls. It is quite a story and you must follow all the story lines in the different books of the bible where it is recorded as no preacher will ever do that. The bible tells the complete stories and when you read the whole of them, it is a mess. One place it tells us that Josiah died and he had done what was right in the sight of god. However, when his son takes the throne and dies, it says that his son did that which was evil in the sight of god, according to all that his fathers had done before him. People, that means that all his fathers before him upon the throne had done evil. As with all the bible stories, there are at least two versions so take your pick. That is what everyone does.

Yahweh was one of dozens of madeup tribal gods and the bible proves that point. History is written by the winners and unfortunately, the winners in the religious world are cons and crooks who use the bible to control the blind masses and get rich. Man creates god in his own image. It is a total insult to attribute that horrid filthy book to the power that created this universe.

It only takes one account of this god condoning rape of a child to prove this is not of a holy god. I would march off to hell with my head high before I served such a monstrous creature even if it did exist.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 37,869,314 times
Reputation: 10831
If He speaks to you, then you know He's there. At least if you're listening.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,346 posts, read 28,275,652 times
Reputation: 11831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Liberal View Post
<Danger...Danger Will Robinson, strawman alert!?>

First of all it is not logical for atheist to make an absolute statement that God does not exist, even Bill Maher claims he is an agnostic and Richard Dawkins said, he is 9 out of 10 sure that there is no existence of any kind of God.

It takes just as much faith to believe in atheism. To make the absolute statement “God does not exist!” is to make a claim of knowing absolutely everything there is to know about everything – and of having been everywhere in the universe there is to go – and having witnessed everything there is to be seen. Of course, no atheist would make these exact claims. However, that is essentially what they are claiming when they state that God does not exist.

Atheism nor science can disprove the existence of God, therefore by the finely tuned creation, laws of physics/ gravity, order, designed, it is plausible to believe there is a God.

It trips me out how even though 80% of the world believes in God, that the onus is on us to prove the existence of God. I say the onus in on the atheist to disprove.
Straw man indeed.....Where did I state as a fact that God does not exist? I cannot make that statement, anymore than you can state as a fact that he does. The best either of us can do is believe one way or the other. You fundamentalist are constantly making claims as fact, when in reality all you have is what you believe. Your claims that because it's in the bible its truth or fact, are still just your beliefs.
 
Old 10-05-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,346 posts, read 28,275,652 times
Reputation: 11831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero777 View Post
But the atheist cling to evolution as fact and state it as such, when it is really just something they parrot out of the Origins of the Species. Annoying isn't it?

Not so Nero...I look at the overwhelming evidence of evolution and evaluate it..Where is your evidence?



To not believe in any form of a deity is to put faith into evolution and the theories forwarded by Darwin and Gould; you sacrifice one belief system for another.
I agree that to me evolution makes more sense than creation, but it is not my "belief system" You actually think I abandoned Christianity to embrace evolution? Evolution just is, and requires no faith on my part...Abandoning Christianity was not a sacrifice but a great relief for me.
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