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Old 04-28-2007, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,063,151 times
Reputation: 1175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I think Jesus did not address the issue because it had already been addressed. Just like He did not address other issues. He didn't need to. He said He did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. But I think you've got a great idea, reading our Bible and searching for these answers is the best way to find the answers.
Well, that may be true that the subject had already been addressed. However, so had things like adultery, yet he discussed that. He took the woman at the well to task, for living with some guy she wasn't married to. I think that would cover fornication. He also discussed divorce. So, where are his teachings on homosexuality? I'm not trying to start a dust-up here. I just haven't found where he addressed this, yet he talked about the other things. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or otherwise, at this point, (although, as I have said somewhere before, I am not comfortable with the thought of it. By the same token, I have no desire to play bedroom police). I just want to know if he said anything, (haven't found it yet), and if not, why not.

But, I'm glad you approve of my idea. See, I'm not completely off my rocker, But, I do ask alot of questions, many of which no one is going to be able to answer, to my satisfaction, but I have always been like that. The bane of Sunday School teachers and preachers, alike, and I'm not kidding about that. Some of them really didn't know what to make of me, and I imagine some of them didn't like me a whole lot. There's alot of folks out there that don't like their faith questioned. I'm one of those who figures if God can't handle questions, he's not much of a God, yes?

 
Old 04-28-2007, 08:50 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,363 posts, read 29,387,938 times
Reputation: 29838
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
Well, that may be true that the subject had already been addressed. However, so had things like adultery, yet he discussed that. He took the woman at the well to task, for living with some guy she wasn't married to. I think that would cover fornication. He also discussed divorce. So, where are his teachings on homosexuality? I'm not trying to start a dust-up here. I just haven't found where he addressed this, yet he talked about the other things. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or otherwise, at this point, (although, as I have said somewhere before, I am not comfortable with the thought of it. By the same token, I have no desire to play bedroom police). I just want to know if he said anything, (haven't found it yet), and if not, why not.

But, I'm glad you approve of my idea. See, I'm not completely off my rocker, But, I do ask alot of questions, many of which no one is going to be able to answer, to my satisfaction, but I have always been like that. The bane of Sunday School teachers and preachers, alike, and I'm not kidding about that. Some of them really didn't know what to make of me, and I imagine some of them didn't like me a whole lot. There's alot of folks out there that don't like their faith questioned. I'm one of those who figures if God can't handle questions, he's not much of a God, yes?
I think you should ask any question that you want an answer to or would like to talk about and yes God can handle it So you keep looking for your answers (their in the Bible). And I'm going to do some research into your question.
 
Old 04-28-2007, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,371,895 times
Reputation: 3815
I enjoy how you question so often and so thoroughly. Here in this post, I find it so interesting that you appear to accept that the words in the bible are the words of Jesus. As you say, he wrote, or he discussed.

Are you referring to the gospels when you say this? Because I believe in this or another thread, you also said you thought or believed the books written by Paul were letters.

Just curious, because not having been raised Christian, I've always doubted the gospels because of when they were written and never believed that Paul spoke for Jesus.

My belief is that Jesus was the inspiration for Christianity but not the originator of the faith.

And with that in mind, I've also always believed that man created the scripture in a time when the world was in upheaval, specific to its time, and the rules were made (all of them) to protect people from creating civil disorder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
Well, that may be true that the subject had already been addressed. However, so had things like adultery, yet he discussed that. He took the woman at the well to task, for living with some guy she wasn't married to. I think that would cover fornication. He also discussed divorce. So, where are his teachings on homosexuality? I'm not trying to start a dust-up here. I just haven't found where he addressed this, yet he talked about the other things. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or otherwise, at this point, (although, as I have said somewhere before, I am not comfortable with the thought of it. By the same token, I have no desire to play bedroom police). I just want to know if he said anything, (haven't found it yet), and if not, why not.

But, I'm glad you approve of my idea. See, I'm not completely off my rocker, But, I do ask alot of questions, many of which no one is going to be able to answer, to my satisfaction, but I have always been like that. The bane of Sunday School teachers and preachers, alike, and I'm not kidding about that. Some of them really didn't know what to make of me, and I imagine some of them didn't like me a whole lot. There's alot of folks out there that don't like their faith questioned. I'm one of those who figures if God can't handle questions, he's not much of a God, yes?
 
Old 04-28-2007, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,063,151 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I enjoy how you question so often and so thoroughly. Here in this post, I find it so interesting that you appear to accept that the words in the bible are the words of Jesus. As you say, he wrote, or he discussed.

Are you referring to the gospels when you say this? Because I believe in this or another thread, you also said you thought or believed the books written by Paul were letters.

Just curious, because not having been raised Christian, I've always doubted the gospels because of when they were written and never believed that Paul spoke for Jesus.

My belief is that Jesus was the inspiration for Christianity but not the originator of the faith.

And with that in mind, I've also always believed that man created the scripture in a time when the world was in upheaval, specific to its time, and the rules were made (all of them) to protect people from creating civil disorder.
Well, you have to remember that I was raised Christian, so I still think in Christian terms, if that makes sense. As I've said before, I stopped attending church a few years ago, but my questions have never stopped. If I was going to be gut honest, (and I may as well be, right? ), I'm not entirely convinced that the words of Jesus are, indeed, his, (although I believe he was a real person). But, for your average Christian, they are, so I must use that text, or reference. I read a book recently, that talked about Paul being the inventor, if you will, of Christianity, and the author had some compelling arguments. And, no, he wasn't an atheist; he was actually a Jewish scholar. It was a very interesting read. I guess you could say that I am still "on the hunt"! I believe, wholeheartedly, in a Creator, but I have read so many theories and ideas, from different cultures, and religious backgrounds, that it all gets very confusing. I think I tend to lean towards the thought that the Indians have, (and no, I'm not a new-ager). Many, if not most, seem to have the idea that the Creator, the Great Spirit, the Great Mystery, is exactly that, a mystery. I'm not convinced that we can capture the essence of such a thing.

And, the whole reason that I have gotten to this point, ironically enough, was because a few years ago, just before I stopped going to church, I started studying on tithing. One thing led to another, and then I started studying about hell, and everything snowballed from there! Your average Christian would probably think that I am a theological mess, and I may well be, but the questions abound. And, I continue to search, in the Bible, in other writings. Even being here on the forum, gives me new thoughts to ponder, so long as no one is trying to cram something down my throat. That's why I can appreciate the responses from Hoosier_guy and ILNC, etc. I understand where they are coming from, and I like to hear what they have to say, because even if it's something I've heard before, perhaps they will have a different take on it, than what I may have thought of before.You suppose I was a philosopher in a past life? (Actually, I'm kidding on that one. Reincarnation doesn't hold much water, for me).

Whew! I didn't mean to get so long-winded on my explanation, but I hope it made some kind of sense, in a rambling way.

Last edited by CelticLady1; 04-28-2007 at 09:36 PM..
 
Old 04-28-2007, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,742,477 times
Reputation: 5973
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
I read a book recently, that talked about Paul being the inventor, if you will, of Christianity, and the author had some compelling arguments. And, no, he wasn't an atheist; he was actually a Jewish scholar. It was a very interesting read. I guess you could say that I am still "on the hunt"!

Whew! I didn't mean to get so long-winded on my explanation, but I hope it made some kind of sense, in a rambling way.
For a minute there I thought I was looking at one of my posts...they're usually as long as that one CelticLady! While this is a bit off thread I don't think the OP will mind too much. I've heard before what you say about Paul being the creator of Christianity, and in some ways it can make sense. But I've always wondered, how can something like a book stay intact for so many years, not go through revisions and changes like religions and have affected so many lives throughout the ages? Haven't you and others seen lives transformed because of reading the Bible, or trusting in the Christian God?

I know that a few books have survived the centuries, but I find it so hard to believe that one man named Paul or Saul...take your pick, could've created a religion and book like this and have it last for more than 2,000 years. Something bigger has to be involved...don't you think?
 
Old 04-28-2007, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,371,895 times
Reputation: 3815
Thanks for sharing some of your searching and philosophic perspectives. I've also read extensively on religion, and I suppose it is the combination of inquiry and conjecture from an accumulated number of insights that I've drawn some of my conclusions or hypotheses.

I suppose I agree with the author of the book that Paul was the inventor. In many of my readings, Paul is most often examined, as is St. Augustine. I take these two as the principle architects of Christianity.

Now do I believe in a Supreme Being, I'm not certain I do, and I wouldn't declare I don't. I do believe there is something beyond simple science, an "other" so to speak, not one that governs us, here on earth or beyond, but moves with us in nature. I also think on some level, while I don't believe in reincarnation, that I sense and feel souls. Not in a new age sense, but in a spiritual sense.

There is more to this world than we have discovered, and perhaps we will never discover it. It is that mystery that may be God.
 
Old 04-28-2007, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,063,151 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_guy View Post
For a minute there I thought I was looking at one of my posts...they're usually as long as that one CelticLady! While this is a bit off thread I don't think the OP will mind too much. I've heard before what you say about Paul being the creator of Christianity, and in some ways it can make sense. But I've always wondered, how can something like a book stay intact for so many years, not go through revisions and changes like religions and have affected so many lives throughout the ages? Haven't you and others seen lives transformed because of reading the Bible, or trusting in the Christian God?

I know that a few books have survived the centuries, but I find it so hard to believe that one man named Paul or Saul...take your pick, could've created a religion and book like this and have it last for more than 2,000 years. Something bigger has to be involved...don't you think?
Well, I'm not convinced that Paul was the inventor of Christianity, but as I said, the author did have some compelling arguments. Although, I am also not convinced that "a book", (and I presume you are referring to the Bible, when you said that), has stayed intact, and hasn't gone through revisons and changes.

But, to answer your question, yes, I have seen people changed because they believed the Bible, and the God of the Bible. However, I also have known people that had no particular connection to Christianity, and their lives have been fine. I've known people who switched from Catholic to Protestant, and vice versa. I've heard of people who switched from Christian to Muslim. How can we all be so right, and yet all be so wrong? There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of different belief systems in this world. Christianity is not the only system that believes that is is the one. If one was raised in the Muslim belief, one would be thoroughly convinced that everyone else was wrong, and that being a Muslim was the only way to salvation. And, he would be just as convinced in his belief, as born-again Christians are in theirs. Who is right? Christians say they are; Muslims will tell you that only they are correct. Why would God leave something so important as our eternal soul, in our own extremely incapable hands, and expect us to get it right, in the few short years we puny mortals have on this earth? For goodness' sake, most of us can't walk and chew gum at the same time!

Do I think something or Someone bigger is involved? You bet! I'm just not necessarily convinced that that Someone is involved in the way in which Christians, or Muslims, or a myriad of others, would have the world believe, with such exclusiveness. Christians always tell others, "What if you are wrong?" Yet, the Muslim would turn around and say the exact same thing to the Christian. Something is wrong with this picture.
 
Old 04-28-2007, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,063,151 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Thanks for sharing some of your searching and philosophic perspectives. I've also read extensively on religion, and I suppose it is the combination of inquiry and conjecture from an accumulated number of insights that I've drawn some of my conclusions or hypotheses.

I suppose I agree with the author of the book that Paul was the inventor. In many of my readings, Paul is most often examined, as is St. Augustine. I take these two as the principle architects of Christianity.

Now do I believe in a Supreme Being, I'm not certain I do, and I wouldn't declare I don't. I do believe there is something beyond simple science, an "other" so to speak, not one that governs us, here on earth or beyond, but moves with us in nature. I also think on some level, while I don't believe in reincarnation, that I sense and feel souls. Not in a new age sense, but in a spiritual sense.

There is more to this world than we have discovered, and perhaps we will never discover it. It is that mystery that may be God.
Well, I enjoy reading what you have to think. Like I said, I'm probably a theological mess, but I am trying to sort through alot of information and alot of beliefs. Goodness, I hope I have enough time on this earth to be able to figure something out, to my satisfaction! I sure didn't ask to be in this position, but my hardcore honesty kind of got in the way, when I started researching and investigating. It's one of the reasons I don't go to church anymore. It just seems kind of hypocritical to be sitting in a pew, when I either don't believe what I am hearing, or at the very least, I am very questioning about it.

Yeah, I've had some questions, not only about Paul, but about Augustine, as well. I need to read and investigate some more, though. But, I would say that much that I have read seems to point toward Paul and Augustine. But, then I also wonder, do those people who write in a not so very flattering way, about those two gentlemen, is it possible that they have an axe to grind? My goodness, it gets confusing! Maybe that's why I wonder if the Indians do have it right, like I said, about the Great Mystery. Maybe it is too big to capture, (or to discover it, as you said).
 
Old 04-29-2007, 01:15 AM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,038,718 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_guy View Post
Then why do so many people accept it as okay? What are the churches that accept homosexuality teaching that makes it permissive?

Pass the collection plate please.
 
Old 04-29-2007, 01:27 AM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,038,718 times
Reputation: 382
God is about the creation of life. Even if you do not believe in God, every living thing on this planet creates new life with the one exception of all life, a union of two men and the union of two women. Why would society want to put a stamp of approval by allowing gay marriage when it goes against the very essence of life?

….and please bypass the ignorant argument “what if someone can’t or doesn’t have children?”
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