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I have a theory about all of this being discussed, but that's all I can offer since we can never understand the mind of our Creator. And to those who do not believe in God, theories and assumptions are all you will ever receive from another human being that is still alive and breathing.
Even if I were to offer up my theories it wouldn't matter because it would just turn into a barrage of trying to punch holes in my theories, which is kind of redundant since they ARE theories. Atheists don't accept the answer that God is a mystery so I will give you another answer, once again.
Accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, and you will be satisfied and accept that you will never have all of your answers until you die. Peace comes with Jesus and so does the Holy Spirit. Upon accepting Jesus, there will be an unveiling where you will understand the Bible and all things spiritual.
It will never happen unless you take that first step of faith.
ILNC already quoted the scripture that goes along with what I said about it never making sense unless you accept Christ through faith.
Of course, but not while standing over their victim and commanding that they convert to atheism.
Well said my fellow heathen Atheist! Now let's go ravage the town and drink grog! Yar! I am an Atheist, and without a doctrine to instruct me, I have no morals!
I have a theory about all of this being discussed, but that's all I can offer since we can never understand the mind of our Creator. And to those who do not believe in God, theories and assumptions are all you will ever receive from another human being that is still alive and breathing.
Everything you got from religion is from other human beings. You choose to believe it came from God before the human wrote it down. I choose to withhold judgment until the facts are in (and am willing to accept that they will probably never come).
Be that as it may, those laws are atrocious in terms of human rights. I don't care if those laws are for a people other than mine. People died under those barbaric laws. That's the point. Christians believe Jesus was with god in the beginning, so Jesus must have been onboard with these laws for Jews. Get it?
Although I couldn't agree with you more, John, I have to confess to an ongoing problem with the highly ambiguous figure of Jesus, as portrayed in the bible.
It goes without saying that I have no time for the supernatural elements, but I do ponder sometimes whether we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater to some extent. Especially if you allow that all the gumph about Jesus being the fulfilment of OT prophesy should be ditched, as it deserves to be, being the product of much shameless tampering with scripture to make the facts fit the later Christian agenda.
if you strip away all the above, you may be left with an enigmatic and charismatic figure who brought a very different message than what went before, based largely on tolerance, as opposed to OT condemnation, and compassion for suffering, rather than random threats of damnation.
Admittedly, this observation doesn't fit ALL the words that were put into Jesus' mouth in the Gospels, but if you take, for instance, the account of him actually intervening to save the adulterous woman from being stoned to death, it makes me wonder whether Jesus had any real connection with the brutal god of the OT.
The bizarre doctrine of The Holy Trinity was, of course a much later invention by the early church, long after Jesus was dead. So I think we can safely dismiss the relevance of that confused and irrational bit of whimsy right out of hand. Simmilarly, a very different Jesus tradition was maintained by the early Christian Gnostics, and they were brutally suppressed into (near) extinction by the rival orthodox church.
Fortunately, much of the Gnostic's writings have re-surfaced after being lost for 2000 years, portraying a much more Mystical Christ, who is even further removed from the OT god - extremely so, in fact.
The point I am trying to make is, the real Jesus of history may turn out to be not even recognisable as the sort of god-puppet he is usually seen as by traditional Christians. If nothing else, if we take on board his famous dictum - 'Let he who is guiltless cast the first stone', I think we are half-way to proving that Jesus needn't be connected to any supernatural god to stand alone as a teacher of ethics. Many of his reputed 'parables' also indicate a more humane and anti-materialistic ethos, and are based largely on a timeless moral code, rarely, if ever, reflected in the OT.
The sort of ethics that are pretty close to our own, as atheists, I would argue... Just a thought.
Last edited by brianrees; 11-06-2008 at 06:23 AM..
The laws given in Leviticus pertained to the Jews, not to Gentiles. Judaism is a tribal religion, by definition.
Does this make god racist? This is clearly an instance of god making unfair rules, or at least different rules for different people. Funny i was under the impression that all peoples were equal. I'm not sure i like the idea of a god that gives certain races sanctions, and lets others do what they want
I have a theory about all of this being discussed, but that's all I can offer since we can never understand the mind of our Creator. And to those who do not believe in God, theories and assumptions are all you will ever receive from another human being that is still alive and breathing.
Even if I were to offer up my theories it wouldn't matter because it would just turn into a barrage of trying to punch holes in my theories, which is kind of redundant since they ARE theories. Atheists don't accept the answer that God is a mystery so I will give you another answer, once again.
Accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, and you will be satisfied and accept that you will never have all of your answers until you die. Peace comes with Jesus and so does the Holy Spirit. Upon accepting Jesus, there will be an unveiling where you will understand the Bible and all things spiritual.
It will never happen unless you take that first step of faith.
ILNC already quoted the scripture that goes along with what I said about it never making sense unless you accept Christ through faith.
As an atheist, i will never take this step. i do not in believe things that have an absence of proof. Im willing to bet that, similarily, you will not take the step to rationaly consider the existence of god, if looking at nothing other than the vast amounts of logical failings and contradictions the bible contains.
Also one could compare the number of murders/deaths in the name of Atheism to those made in the name of god.
Ah, this old saw again? Let me see, you're going to trot out the names of any world leader who you claim was an atheist, and say that anything they did was "in the name of atheism". Wrong again. I could get deeply into this, but really...if you fail to educate yourself on things that you are presenting as fact, I'm not going to do your work for you.
**Edit: Never mind. I haven't had my coffee this morning and for a moment there thought you were actually making your statement as fact, and for the "other side". My bad.
Last edited by SuSuSushi; 11-06-2008 at 08:26 AM..
Reason: No coffee, no brain.
Ah, this old saw again? Let me see, you're going to trot out the names of any world leader who you claim was an atheist, and say that anything they did was "in the name of atheism". Wrong again. I could get deeply into this, but really...if you fail to educate yourself on things that you are presenting as fact, I'm not going to do your work for you.
**Edit: Never mind. I haven't had my coffee this morning and for a moment there thought you were actually making your statement as fact, and for the "other side". My bad.
Untill you got your edit in there you missed my point, ah the power of coffee
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