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There is a great deal of supportive evidence, and there has been for years, and from non Christians as well. The problem is, there appears to be a concerted effort by the powers that be to keep this discovery under raps. It may be because of the feared effect such a discovery would have. Especially in certain areas of the world. Yet, whatever the real reasons are, it is a fact that the Turkish government will not allow anyone on the North slope of Ararat. That should tell you something right there. I spoke with a man not long ago who's group was planning to climb Ararat to that GPS fix where the Ark is believed to be, yet right at the last minute Turkey refused to allow them access. And you are right, most people don't care, and that is true of the Bible as well. A Book that makes some wild claims, yet few people take the time to consider them. When so much of the world has been convinced that the stories are all false, why take the time, or money to consider them. Only a true believer in the Bible would try to do the follow up.
What would this feared effect be? Possible evidence for proof of God or at the very least a radical change in our fundamental understanding of science. Most of the world believes in God so what would this fear be? I just don't believe thousands of scientists, government officials, religious leaders, etc. would overlook this. I trust you when you say the Turkish government won't allow access to the slope, but I believe if there was enough proof that there might be something on the mountain, the international pressure would be too great on the Turkish government to ignore.
What would this feared effect be? Possible evidence for proof of God or at the very least a radical change in our fundamental understanding of science. Most of the world believes in God so what would this fear be? I just don't believe thousands of scientists, government officials, religious leaders, etc. would overlook this. I trust you when you say the Turkish government won't allow access to the slope, but I believe if there was enough proof that there might be something on the mountain, the international pressure would be too great on the Turkish government to ignore.
The accounts I have heard state that there is a belief in the Muslim faith, especially over in that part of the world, that when Noah's ark is found. That will be a sign to Islamic believers that it is time to start the great holy war. The one person who was working for National Geographic Society heard that. And he believed that was the reason they hid the Ark artifacts. I also heard that from another Ark searcher who was speaking to an Islamic teacher over in Turkey. There is proof of it's existance, yet outside of Christian believers, few in the field of science have really considered it. And there is presure on people in government not to release this information for obvious reasons. The greatest discovery of mankind is out there, yet government is afraid to release it. And of course, most of science is not looking to debunk their belief in Evolution, and that is why they also ignore all the other evidence about mans coexistance with dinosaurs. So it should come as no surprise that they ignore these facts as well.
The accounts I have heard (hearsay) state that there is a belief in the Muslim faith, especially over in that part (convenient geographic location to match) of the world, that when Noah's ark is found. That will be a sign to Islamic believers that it is time to start the (unproven/factless) great holy war. The one (conveniently unnamed) person who was working for National Geographic Society heard that. And he believed that was the reason they hid the (unknown or fictitious) Ark artifacts. I also heard that from another (conveniently unnamed) Ark searcher who was speaking to an (conveniently unnamed) Islamic teacher over in Turkey. There is (alleged) proof of it's existance, yet outside of Christian believers, few in the field of science have really considered it. And there is presure on people in government not to release this information for obvious (unfounded not backed up by any proof) reasons. The greatest (alleged) discovery of mankind is out there, yet government (which one) is (allegedly) afraid to release it. And of course, most of science is not (allegedly) looking to debunk their belief in Evolution (what has evolution got to do with the flood? Oh the Dino's), and that is why they also ignore all the other evidence about mans coexistance with dinosaurs (a theory only shared by Young Earth creationists). So it should come as no surprise that they ignore these (unverified) facts as well.
There that looks like a wiki quote.
Can you see the blue bits is what is required in your statements. All you offer is the same old time and again.
Replace the blue bits with traceable/verifiable facts that others can examine. If a witness cannot be named hence contacted to cross examine, that does not count as a witness. Kinda works like this in a court of law when the trial is based on circumstantial "evidence"
You blow it by your opening statement "I have heard"
The accounts I have heard (hearsay) state that there is a belief in the Muslim faith, especially over in that part (convenient geographic location to match) of the world, that when Noah's ark is found. That will be a sign to Islamic believers that it is time to start the (unproven/factless) great holy war. The one (conveniently unnamed) person who was working for National Geographic Society heard that. And he believed that was the reason they hid the (unknown or fictitious) Ark artifacts. I also heard that from another (conveniently unnamed) Ark searcher who was speaking to an (conveniently unnamed) Islamic teacher over in Turkey. There is (alleged) proof of it's existance, yet outside of Christian believers, few in the field of science have really considered it. And there is presure on people in government not to release this information for obvious (unfounded not backed up by any proof) reasons. The greatest (alleged) discovery of mankind is out there, yet government (which one) is (allegedly) afraid to release it. And of course, most of science is not (allegedly) looking to debunk their belief in Evolution (what has evolution got to do with the flood? Oh the Dino's), and that is why they also ignore all the other evidence about mans coexistance with dinosaurs (a theory only shared by Young Earth creationists). So it should come as no surprise that they ignore these (unverified) facts as well.
There that looks like a wiki quote.
Can you see the blue bits is what is required in your statements. All you offer is the same old time and again.
Replace the blue bits with traceable/verifiable facts that others can examine. If a witness cannot be named hence contacted to cross examine, that does not count as a witness. Kinda works like this in a court of law when the trial is based on circumstantial "evidence"
You blow it by your opening statement "I have heard"
Well usually by this time if you had read my post, you would of already of known that I had given those names and places. Yet it appears you missed that part. Robin Simmons who spoke with an Islamic scholar at the University of Erzurum which is located 150 miles West of Mt. Ararat stated. That the scholar told him there is a widespread belief in the region that the revelation of the Ark will be a sign that Mohammed is returning to purge the earth of all the hereticts in a holy war. And then all true believers will go to heaven in a restored Golden Ark. Link below.
If the flood actually happened as the Bible has stated, you can pretty much kiss Evolution goodbye. Because then the Bible without question would have to be taken literally. And if that happens, there will be no room for the Theory of Evolution.
And the unnamed person who worked for National Geographic Society has been named on many of my posts, yet to refresh your memmory, I will repeat it once again for your benefit. His name is David Duckworth, and he worked as a volunteer in the vertebrate paleontology section at the Smithsonian Institution in Washigton, D.C. in the fall of 1968. David and Al Merrick actually saw the artifacts that came from the expedition. It was conducted by the National Gegraphic Society. There were actually three expeditions to the Ark, and they were done in the years, 1958, 1964, and 1968. David spoke with Dr. Geist who told him he had to use thermite bombs to burn into portions of the Arks hull. The full story is in the (link above). On one of the interviews, on another link that I read of Duckworth's account, he was told that the reason they did not what this information given out, is because of religious craziness. Which I believe was a reference to the Islamic future holy war. When I find that link again, I will pass that along as well. All of this information is well documented, and has been out there for years. If it were untrue, I have no doubt that law suits would of been filed long ago. Yet none have.
Well usually by this time if you had read my post, you would of already of known that I had given those names and places. Yet it appears you missed that part. Robin Simmons who spoke with an Islamic scholar at the University of Erzurum which is located 150 miles West of Mt. Ararat stated. That the scholar told him there is a widespread belief in the region that the revelation of the Ark will be a sign that Mohammed is returning to purge the earth of all the hereticts in a holy war. And then all true believers will go to heaven in a restored Golden Ark. Link below.
If the flood actually happened as the Bible has stated, you can pretty much kiss Evolution goodbye. Because then the Bible without question would have to be taken literally. And if that happens, there will be no room for the Theory of Evolution.
And the unnamed person who worked for National Geographic Society has been named on many of my posts, yet to refresh your memmory, I will repeat it once again for your benefit. His name is David Duckworth, and he worked as a volunteer in the vertebrate paleontology section at the Smithsonian Institution in Washigton, D.C. in the fall of 1968. David and Al Merrick actually saw the artifacts that came from the expedition. It was conducted by the National Gegraphic Society. There were actually three expeditions to the Ark, and they were done in the years, 1958, 1964, and 1968. David spoke with Dr. Geist who told him he had to use thermite bombs to burn into portions of the Arks hull. The full story is in the (link above). On one of the interviews, on another link that I read of Duckworth's account, he was told that the reason they did not what this information given out, is because of religious craziness. Which I believe was a reference to the Islamic future holy war. When I find that link again, I will pass that along as well. All of this information is well documented, and has been out there for years. If it were untrue, I have no doubt that law suits would of been filed long ago. Yet none have.
Believe it or not I do look at your links but then when you provide info like this I can right click on "University of Erzurum" and google search it. What I find is that this is not a university specializing in Islamic Faith nor does it appear to indicate any specialty in in any geographic stuff (there are some) but it appears the close proximity to mount Ararat has you convinced.
Next we look at Robin Simmons and find no references to a person associated with the ark but then I distill further
to "Robin Simmons" + ark and wallah, a ton of fundie sites.
So w/o looking at the sites, I conclude Simmons is a relative unknown or a nobody.
Robin Simmons who spoke with an (unknown) Islamic scholar at the University of Erzurum which is located 150 miles West of Mt. Ararat stated. That the (unknown) scholar told him there is a widespread belief in the region (Turkey/middle east/all of Islam?) that the revelation of the Ark will be a sign that Mohammed is returning to purge the earth of all the hereticts in a holy war. And then all true believers will go to heaven in a restored Golden Ark. This requires an independent Islamic scholarly based citation
Anyone can make stuff up and this is independent corroboration that is needed.
Now your link. Did not feel like reading it all and did a google site search based on what I had searched earlier
Still, perhaps God has a hand in all of this. At the University of Erzurum (located 150 miles W of Mt. Ararat), an Islamic scholar told Robin Simmons, one ark explorer: "The Ark is a bomb in the world!" He explained that there is widespread belief in the region that the revelation of the Ark will be a sign that Mohammed is returning to purge the earth of all the heretics in a holy war. Then all true believers will go to heaven in a restored Golden Ark. Perhaps we should all be glad that the Ark has not been more "discovered" than it has. The truth is out there for those who earnestly want to search for it and find it. So it often seems to be God's way.
Now that hardly constitutes proof with so many unknowns.
If we do not have the "scholar's" name we cannot cross examine his statements of testimony.
Call your next witness: David Duckworth does not seem to bring anyone to the forefront unless we:
David Duckworth + Ark then we get what I have already posted from Wiki plus many fundie sites again
David Duckworth, [27]allegedly a volunteer with the Smithsonian, claimed to have seen photographs of the Ark and crates of artifacts being unloaded from a National Geographic expedition in 1968.
I hardly think that stands as irrefutable "proof" of anything.
This is what research is and what I do to look at your evidence - sadly it does NOT pass even the sniff test and I am not even being hypercritical.
So you have merely postulated the same ole you did before, now debunked as unreliable testimony hence case dismissed or move for a mistrial.
BTW - with my custom searches I came across other sites of pics, converted to negatives and seem plausible but they are NOT real pics but a lot of suggestions of what the fuzzy pics could be that we have all looked at and rejected.
People do not file lawsuits for opinions not agreed to, otherwise we would have not enough time or courts to try all the tinfoil hat brigade conspiracy theorists and UFOlogists.
Well people can speculate all they want about Noah's ark. I believe the Bible so I believe the story is true. Yet there are some great stories that speak of the Ark that are beyond the Bible. And unless all these people are boldface liars, then there is something high up on Mt.Ararat, and their stories confirm that the Ark is really there. God in the Bible tell us, that man's wisdom is foolishness to Him. And that is why God often does not do things in ways we consider logical, or believable.
Well, Campbell, here's the ruse. You believe a couple of easily discredited guys, including good old Ed Davis, who desperately WANTED to believe it WAS the Ark that he'd personally found. Plus the statements of a ten-year old? Wowowowow!
And then you throw in some conspiratorial mumbo-jumbo that, conveniently, can't be proved or disproved because the author of it closed that loophole by saying the US Government, CIA or whomever, very VERY conveniently told everyone to shut up.
All of this pretty unbelievable stuff, (which, if it was our side's argument you'd rip apart like a cheap rag doll) is your entire basis for belief.
I say, based on the technical evidence, that it's not the Ark. You're therefore calling me a baldfaced liar. Nice! (Remember my personal peer-reviewed and established scientific and professional credentials? I'm sure you dismiss them and my 16 years of university training and 20 years of professional experience with a simple wave of your hands. And a plunging of your head into the Spaghetti Sauce [see below...])
Your "logic" is posited against the best technical evidence we can acquire at this time (since the Turks won't, for now, let us up there. How odd...), which is the established, proven remote sensing techniques that, you'd have to agree, work perfectly well in, say, Northern Canada to find a coal seam or oil field, and yet apparently, in your mind, fail completely when looking at this supposed Ark structure. It isn't even buried under the surface, where these technologies can by SUCCESSFULL, PROVEN and fully GROUND TRUTHED methods, find coal beds, diamond bearing geological structures, etc.
Among several other techniques, they apply something SO VERY CONVINCING (but that you don't even know about I'll bet) called X-Ray Fluorescence, which is ABSOLUTELY DEAD-NUTS RELIABLE when the material being investigated is fully exposed as your limestone barge is. It (let me repeat in case you missed it) WITH ABSOLUTE RELIABILITY, absolutely positively and properly IDs surface-exposed materials by bouncing X-Rays off them and checking the fluorescent back-reflectance against known "fingerprints". Very specific fluorescence patterns, peaks, spikes, graphics and all. No possibiities of error for, again, easily bombarded and "read" geo-structures. Easy to understand, right? Or are these unbiased geo-techs a bunch of bald-faced liars also? Another big conspiracy just to get your goat?
Your boat is limestone, buddy. Pure and absolutely and truthfully proven. You deny it in the face of such overhelming evidence collected by WAYYYY more than the 3 - 5 guys you've quoted, all desperate to make it the Ark. To deny their findings and conclusions is to stand there on a summer day, look up at the sky and yell "No! The sky's NOT blue, it's RED! It's RED I tell you!!!"
That's when folks start to wander away in a hurry, old pal.
If anyone's running a conspiracy, it's Xtians or the Turks to prevent, as others here have said, a potential loss of income or another discrediting of a screwy literal interpretation of a biblical fable.
There may be be an Ark somewhere, but this ain't it. To say it IS is to also fervently believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster.. Do you? If not, why not? All the evidence is clearly there for TFSM! Some folks just want to keep their heads in the Spaghetti Sauce...
To quote Mulder, "The Truth is Out There!"
PS: I have a new thread posted over in the general Religion & Philosophy forum that really might apply to you. I'd love to have your response to it. I really would.
I don't think you read a word he said, you are just going from post to post making stupid comments.
Think what you want, But Campbell and I have been at this for a long time now, and I assure you I do read his posts.
What was stupid about my statement? It is a true statement. Tell me who has been harmed enough by these so called witnesses enough to warrant a lawsuit, and on what grounds.
People don't generally file lawsuits unless harm is done.......So that argument is out the window...
People file lawsuits for a lot less, and when someone reputation is on the line that is what often leads to a lawsuit. The arguement is only out your window.
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Blind Faith, Cast in Limestone.
