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Old 11-14-2008, 07:50 PM
 
417 posts, read 450,782 times
Reputation: 61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthefence View Post
Because that wasn't the scientific consensus at the time. The science had already been settled and Galileo was questioning scientific "fact".
Your question is an incrimination of science not religion.

Most religious people aren't fundamentalists. That classification in general denotes a certain "type" of person that I don't think is a fair characterization of most christians.
However, that being said, evolution is only provable to a certain point and is only seen to a limited degree within each species. There is absolutely no credible evidence of evolution from a common ancestory.
All things evolving from a single cell organism is no more "proven" than God creating all things from the dust of the earth.


"They" believed what god told them and I'm pretty sure God understood the concept of global".
Let me get this straight, Galileo, a scientist, is being threatened with Heresy by the Catholic Church, and that is incrimination of science?

Scientists make new discoveries often. How fortunate that they are no longer threatened with heresy by religious organizations (in civilized nations) when updating their fields of work.

If the bible was filled with "scientific truths" as the previous poster asserted, there would be no need for Galileo to be threatened with Heresy by the Catholic Church. Everyone would be enlightened by these "scientific truths" from the bible.

Your whole post is a denial of science and a propping up of religious doctrine. Predictable answers:

1) Galileo was threatened with heresy - "It's science's fault!"
2) Evolution is denied by fundamentalists - "It takes faith to believe in evilution!"
3) There was no global flood - "There was because the bible says so, and nevermind that the authors didn't know what global was. god doez!!!"
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,947 posts, read 9,372,280 times
Reputation: 4227
Creation science doesn't so much scientifically prove creation or disprove evolution, but instead it presents a scientific scenario in which the Biblical story could have occurred. You still must take it on faith.

I admit, creationism is not science, but I believe it anyways because I trust an infallible God more than fallible man, despite how "ignorant" or "anti-intellectual" it is considered today.
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:17 AM
 
Location: pittsburgh
97 posts, read 76,749 times
Reputation: 36
how is it easier for an intelligent person to believe that science is more absoulte than faith. is the belief in science the same as the belief in faith. science requires order, faith provides it. one can look at the bible and say that it is impossible. i look at the bible and marvel at the fact that one text can so completely explain the human condition. the context of the bible is very simple , god says to honor me by loving your neighbor. and you love your neighbor by making your rights to free will subordinate to theirs. god did not make religion, which is what people seem to reject, man is responsible for that. since people are as equally unable to prove evolution as the big bang as creation. i dont know why we as a whole grab on to an idea that cant be proved except by faith, and use it as a weapon against each other. i also do not feel that there is any problem with a god who would pass judgement if a law is transgressed, because it answers the scientific requirement of order. what seems to bother me and hopefully some of you, is the fact that mankind cant seem to get things right. nuclear weapons, capitalism, cnn and fox news. science proves action = reaction . the bible also proves action = reaction. dont get caught up wasting your entire life fighting what you dont have to. the storys could be exactly factual or not but the lessions that are illistrated are fact. examples, that "there is nothing new under the sun", abound. history always repeats itself, evolution is based on scale, and if we are not carefull we will probably witness first hand the big bang. and to prove the ark story from a historical perspective take a look through a telescope, six bed rooms and counting.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:47 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 3,100,958 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
If the entire world was covered with water that would mean that Noah would have to also include every species of insect in the world and there are countless millions of them and we're finding more all the time. Insects are pretty tough little critters but I'm not aware of any who are adapted to deep sea living. So first of all how did a couple of little beetles from a rain forest in South America make the trip across continents and oceans to the arc? And for that matter how did any animal like a kangaroo for example get from Australia which is surrounded by oceans to the arc?
Here's another really big problem. If all of the land was covered with water for months as described in the Bible then all of the plants would die. Have any of you ever seen a carrot or potato growing at the bottom of the ocean? I don't think so. Plants need light and carbon dioxide in order for photosynthesis to occur. That means they have to be exposed to the atmosphere. If the planet had really been covered with water for such a long period of time every spud, yam, tree and every last blade of grass would be as dead as a doornail.
Ok, let's hear what kinds of crazy ideas can explain all of that away.
I don't truly care to read through this entire thread. I made it through possibly 5 pages. And I must admit, a few answers (both Christian and atheist) made me chuckle. But my "blind" faith is just that. I do not need to see my God to know that through Him all things are possible. I am hoping that the pages that I did not read were actually filled with two peoples of different faith (or lack there of) having intellegent conversation. Not a thread just set out to make fun of a Christian's faith. Either way, my faith will not be shaken.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

May we all find Peace.

<><
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:59 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 2,940,388 times
Reputation: 1311
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Creation science doesn't so much scientifically prove creation or disprove evolution, but instead it presents a scientific scenario in which the Biblical story could have occurred. You still must take it on faith.

I admit, creationism is not science, but I believe it anyways because I trust an infallible God more than fallible man, despite how "ignorant" or "anti-intellectual" it is considered today.
The bible was written by man, allegedly inspired by God. Who told you it was inspired by God? Men.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:48 PM
 
354 posts, read 317,143 times
Reputation: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJLethal View Post
Let me get this straight, Galileo, a scientist, is being threatened with Heresy by the Catholic Church, and that is incrimination of science?
The church considered him a heretic because to go against accepted "science" was not allowed. The "facts" were already known. Science had proven them. For somebody to come along and dispute that upset science and flew in the face of what the church believed. The church considered him a heretic because scientists considered him a heretic.


Quote:
Scientists make new discoveries often. How fortunate that they are no longer threatened with heresy by religious organizations (in civilized nations) when updating their fields of work.
You mean like scientists that have the audacity to question global warming? The scientists that are black balled by their peers because they disagree with their findings? The ones that are austrisized for pointing out flaws in the studies? The ones that are compared to holocaust deniers for disagreeing with "settled" science? Yeah the scientific community is sooooo much more reasonable than the church.

Quote:
Your whole post is a denial of science and a propping up of religious doctrine. Predictable answers:

1) Galileo was threatened with heresy - "It's science's fault!"
Science contradicted his science. Science considered him a heretic.
Quote:
2) Evolution is denied by fundamentalists - "It takes faith to believe in evilution!"
Have you ever personally witnessed a lifeform evolving from one to another. No, you haven't. Your taking somebody elses word that it happens. That by definition is faith.
Quote:
3) There was no global flood - "There was because the bible says so, and nevermind that the authors didn't know what global was. god doez!!!"
Theres ample evidence of a global flood.
The authors said it covered the entire earth. The earth is a globe. It makes no difference if they knew that or not.
God spoke to Noah. God knows the shape of the planet. Why is that even an issue?
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:02 PM
 
417 posts, read 450,782 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthefence View Post
The church considered him a heretic because to go against accepted "science" was not allowed. The "facts" were already known. Science had proven them. For somebody to come along and dispute that upset science and flew in the face of what the church believed. The church considered him a heretic because scientists considered him a heretic.


You mean like scientists that have the audacity to question global warming? The scientists that are black balled by their peers because they disagree with their findings? The ones that are austrisized for pointing out flaws in the studies? The ones that are compared to holocaust deniers for disagreeing with "settled" science? Yeah the scientific community is sooooo much more reasonable than the church.

Science contradicted his science. Science considered him a heretic.
Have you ever personally witnessed a lifeform evolving from one to another. No, you haven't. Your taking somebody elses word that it happens. That by definition is faith.
Theres ample evidence of a global flood.
The authors said it covered the entire earth. The earth is a globe. It makes no difference if they knew that or not.
God spoke to Noah. God knows the shape of the planet. Why is that even an issue?
This is the best you can come up with after the last post? We've covered all this already.

Your assertion that Evolution requires faith is wrong. Do all police detectives have to witness a crime to solve it? There is such a thing called evidence. You can build a case around it. You can draw facts from it. in your world it would be better to be a criminal because the police could never catch you. They'd need "faith" to prove you're a criminal.

Equally "hilar" (as they say) is your painting Catholic Church scientists as the one charging Galileo with heresy. No, it was the church because Galileo's evidence contradicted a flawed bible. See, in objective science, when scientists make discoveries which are verified by other objective scientists, there is no problem adopting the new data. Do you think there is the Science Gestapo running around keeping people in check? With Creationists yes, but they are not scientists.

Creationist "scientists" who deny Climate Change as a human contributed issue are only doing so for unscientific reasons. Nine times out of ten it's because Creationists only think the world is around 10,000 years old, and the Climate Change data based on ice cores is 650,000+ years. In order to accept the data, they wouldn't be Young Earth Christians anymore. They're not going to let something like Climate Change invalidate their lifelong beliefs! The other dissenters are usually paranoid about Big Brother. (Let's not forget some of the researchers who are on the payroll of Big Oil.)

Visit TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy and it will bring you up to speed ok? Cya on the other side.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
3,608 posts, read 2,882,865 times
Reputation: 2025
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthefence View Post
The church considered him a heretic because to go against accepted "science" was not allowed. The "facts" were already known. Science had proven them. For somebody to come along and dispute that upset science and flew in the face of what the church believed. The church considered him a heretic because scientists considered him a heretic.


You mean like scientists that have the audacity to question global warming? The scientists that are black balled by their peers because they disagree with their findings? The ones that are austrisized for pointing out flaws in the studies? The ones that are compared to holocaust deniers for disagreeing with "settled" science? Yeah the scientific community is sooooo much more reasonable than the church.

Science contradicted his science. Science considered him a heretic.
Have you ever personally witnessed a lifeform evolving from one to another. No, you haven't. Your taking somebody elses word that it happens. That by definition is faith.
Theres ample evidence of a global flood.
The authors said it covered the entire earth. The earth is a globe. It makes no difference if they knew that or not.
God spoke to Noah. God knows the shape of the planet. Why is that even an issue?
You are wrong. Science by definition is nondogmatic. Science will revise and change its claims as new observations and new discoveries are made. There is no such thing as settled science. The reason scientists reject creationism and Irrational Design is because there's absolutely zero empirical evidence that substantiates their claims. Evolution has mountains of evidence through the fossil record, DNA and the geologic timescale. Someone can also go into into a lab and prove evolution is true, where's the testable evidence that ID or creationism is true-clouds. Also, you don't need to see a species evolve during your lifetime to observe evolution, there are countless transitional fossils. Also, it wasn't science that contradicted Galieleo's science, the church were against his ideas because they contradicted Christianity. Also what is this supposed evidence of a global flood.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,773 posts, read 6,921,033 times
Reputation: 1923
Everything and anything is possible through God as He is above science,physics ,archaeology and logic,He is the Creator of the universe. There are a lot of things that are hard to explain in terms of the flood and Noah's Ark in a human's mind ,but God is in control and was testing the faith and endurance of Noah as it took 120 years for it to come to fruition.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:37 PM
 
417 posts, read 450,782 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Everything and anything is possible through God as He is above science,physics ,archaeology and logic,He is the Creator of the universe. There are a lot of things that are hard to explain in terms of the flood and Noah's Ark in a human's mind ,but God is in control and was testing the faith and endurance of Noah as it took 120 years for it to come to fruition.
With statements like these, why bother debating science at all? Every time a Creationist gets backed into a corner, they pull the god-did-it card. It's like playing Poker with four Aces up one's sleeve.

Last edited by JohnJLethal; 11-20-2008 at 10:11 PM..
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