Virgin Birth or Descendant of Abraham? (Harry Potter, Mormon, America, bible)

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by renriq02

that is incorrect as Abraham wasn't the first person it was Adam

huh? Adam has nothing to do with the population of the earth. God gave Abraham a covenant that descendants of the world and great kings will be honor in his name. God did not do that with Adam.

[renriq02]

I thought you wrote that we are ALL descendants of Abraham

Of course that would be incorrect as everyone came from Adam not Abraham. The Jews came from Abraham

Originally Posted by shibainu

huh? Adam has nothing to do with the population of the earth. God gave Abraham a covenant that descendants of the world and great kings will be honor in his name. God did not do that with Adam.

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by janeannwho

Mary was born without original sin, the immaculate conception, if you believe Catholic dogma.

No, I don't believe Catholic dogma--the Scriptures do not teach the "immaculate conception" of Christ. Such a concept came about because apologists could not find a reasonable response for the questions concerning Jesus' lack of a sin nature. As I said in my post to Logic--Jesus, although fully man, had no sin nature because the sin nature is passed on through the man not through the woman. Jesus was the adopted son of Joseph which gave Him full legal rights to the throne of David; He was the biological son of Mary and without sin and fully man (not because Mary was created sinless, but because she could not pass on the sin nature to Him).

Preterist

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dan

So we are to believe that Joseph and Mary were married but did not have sex. How else could Jesus have been born of a virgin?

They did not have sex during the betrothal period. After the birth of Jesus, they had biological children through the normal means.

Preterist

[renriq02]

preterist i knew we would agree on something lol

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by renriq02

preterist i knew we would agree on something lol

Feels good, renriq2!

Preterist

[PaulMcNabb]

Originally Posted by renriq02

I thought you wrote that we are ALL descendants of Abraham

Of course that would be incorrect as everyone came from Adam not Abraham. The Jews came from Abraham

Actually, after 4,000 years, if anyone alive at that time has living descendants today, then the odds are that everyone alive today is descended from that person (excluding isolated populations).

[brianrees]

Originally Posted by Preterist

No, I don't believe Catholic dogma--the Scriptures do not teach the "immaculate conception" of Christ. Such a concept came about because apologists could not find a reasonable response for the questions concerning Jesus' lack of a sin nature. As I said in my post to Logic--Jesus, although fully man, had no sin nature because the sin nature is passed on through the man not through the woman. Jesus was the adopted son of Joseph which gave Him full legal rights to the throne of David; He was the biological son of Mary and without sin and fully man (not because Mary was created sinless, but because she could not pass on the sin nature to Him).

Preterist

I can't help feeling that if you applied that fine analytical brain of yours to something that might benefit humanity, like medical or scientific research, Preterist, instead of indulging in the most convoluted speculation on supernatural irrelevancies, the world would might gain far more from your presence in it.

And although I recognise that 'indulge' is a controversial word to use in this context, I choose it deliberately in order to express my disbelief that you, an intelligent individual, can allow yourself to be so caught up in myth and fantasy that you lose sight of how supremely inconsequential it is for the welfare of humanity whether Mary and Joseph had sex or not 2000 years ago. AIDS alone is predicted to kill 70 million people in Africa alone over the next 20 years. That is the reality of the times we live in, with respect.

That, of course, is my predictable view as an atheist, and religion might well be the pivot around which your life revolves, but as I see it, you are on one big wild-goose chase that leads nowhere, other than to insult the findings of dedicated scientific research. I urge you to swap over to the rational side before you squander any more mental energy focusing on pointless scriptural hair-splitting, a trivial waste of your time that actually benefits nobody in any conceivable way.

Regard this, if you like, as a back-handed complement, since I hate to see your obvious intellect being abused in this way. Or at least give my opinion some serious thought - atheism is extremely liberating, even if it does bring you back down to earth with an almighty bang.

Brian.

[renriq02]

that would be correct if everyone besides Abraham had died, and everyone intermingled together.

Originally Posted by PaulMcNabb

Actually, after 4,000 years, if anyone alive at that time has living descendants today, then the odds are that everyone alive today is descended from that person (excluding isolated populations).

[Capt. Dan]

Originally Posted by Preterist

They did not have sex during the betrothal period. After the birth of Jesus, they had biological children through the normal means.

Preterist

So Jesus was born to an unmarried woman? You realize dont you that in reality an unmarried pregnant woman would have probably been stoned to death in that day and area?