Virgin Birth or Descendant of Abraham? (Isaiah, Holy Spirit, Israel, Isaac)

[LogicIsYourFriend]

If Jesus is a descendant of Abraham, then he is not of virgin birth. If he is of virgin birth, then he is not a descendant of Abraham.

Matthew 1:16-17
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

Joseph is only the husband of Mary. If Joseph is Jesus' father, then Mary was not a virgin. If the holy spirit is Jesus' father, then Joseph is not, and the genealogy of Jesus as a descendant of Abraham is not accurate.

[Preterist]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

If Jesus is a descendant of Abraham, then he is not of virgin birth. If he is of virgin birth, then he is not a descendant of Abraham.

Matthew 1:16-17
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

Joseph is only the husband of Mary. If Joseph is Jesus' father, then Mary was not a virgin. If the holy spirit is Jesus' father, then Joseph is not, and the genealogy of Jesus as a descendant of Abraham is not accurate.

LogicIsYourFriend: In 2 Samuel 7:12-13, we find that Jesus had to be born in the line of Dave. He was the "legal" descendant of Abraham through his adoption as a son by Joseph. "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever." As Joseph's legally adopted son, the Davidic line runs through the line of Seth to Noah to Shem to Abraham and then to Isaac, Jacob, Judah and David.

Some suppose that there are major contradictions between the accounts of Jesus' lineage as found in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:28-38. But are there? There are not if we realize that Luke describes the genealogy of Mary through David's son, Nathan, thus giving Him His necessary humanity and blood-line, Messianic link to David while Matthew describes that of Joseph through David's son, Solomon, giving Him His legal right to the throne while avoiding the inherent sin-nature which is passed on from the man.

Here is a very important point often overlooked by naysayers: Jeconiah was the very last king of Israel to occupy the throne of David. But because of his great wickedness, God determined that none of his descendants would ever occupy David's throne (Jer. 22:24-30). Jesus' legal lineage through His adoption by Joseph can be traced back to Jeconiah, but his physical lineage comes through a different son of David through Mary thus bypassing the curse upon the descendants of Jeconiah.

What is the significance? God kept His promises to Abraham and David and also his curse upon Jeconiah. It is also significant to see that through Mary Jesus received human flesh and humanity; through Joseph he received the legal right to the throne. Sin entered the world not through a woman (Eve) but through a man (Adam). In Adam all sin and die (Rom. 5; 1 Cor. 15). It is in the loins of man, then, that sin is passed on to successive generations. Mary, being from the loins of man (as we all are), inherited a sin nature but she could not pass it on to Jesus without union with a physical, human father (the "disease" carrier)! Thus Jesus, born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit, was both fully man and fully God.

Preterist

[janeannwho]

Originally Posted by Preterist

LogicIsYourFriend: In 2 Samuel 7:12-13, we find that Jesus had to be born in the line of Dave. He was the "legal" descendant of Abraham through his adoption as a son by Joseph. "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever." As Joseph's legally adopted son, the Davidic line runs through the line of Seth to Noah to Shem to Abraham and then to Isaac, Jacob, Judah and David.

Some suppose that there are major contradictions between the accounts of Jesus' lineage as found in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:28-38. But are there? There are not if we realize that Luke describes the genealogy of Mary through David's son, Nathan, thus giving Him His necessary humanity and blood-line, Messianic link to David while Matthew describes that of Joseph through David's son, Solomon, giving Him His legal right to the throne while avoiding the inherent sin-nature which is passed on from the man.

Here is a very important point often overlooked by naysayers: Jeconiah was the very last king of Israel to occupy the throne of David. But because of his great wickedness, God determined that none of his descendants would ever occupy David's throne (Jer. 22:24-30). Jesus' legal lineage through His adoption by Joseph can be traced back to Jeconiah, but his physical lineage comes through a different son of David through Mary thus bypassing the curse upon the descendants of Jeconiah.

What is the significance? God kept His promises to Abraham and David and also his curse upon Jeconiah. It is also significant to see that through Mary Jesus received human flesh and humanity; through Joseph he received the legal right to the throne. Sin entered the world not through a woman (Eve) but through a man (Adam). In Adam all sin and die (Rom. 5; 1 Cor. 15). It is in the loins of man, then, that sin is passed on to successive generations. Mary, being from the loins of man (as we all are), inherited a sin nature but she could not pass it on to Jesus without union with a physical, human father (the "disease" carrier)! Thus Jesus, born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit, was both fully man and fully God.

Preterist

Mary was born without original sin, the immaculate conception, if you believe Catholic dogma.

[Capt. Dan]

So we are to believe that Joseph and Mary were married but did not have sex. How else could Jesus have been born of a virgin?

[elwill]

isn't mary from descendent of abraham (pbuh) ?

[renriq02]

Mary is a descendant of Abraham


Mystery solved

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

If Jesus is a descendant of Abraham, then he is not of virgin birth. If he is of virgin birth, then he is not a descendant of Abraham.

Matthew 1:16-17
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

Joseph is only the husband of Mary. If Joseph is Jesus' father, then Mary was not a virgin. If the holy spirit is Jesus' father, then Joseph is not, and the genealogy of Jesus as a descendant of Abraham is not accurate.

answers to your question:
1 Virgin birth in Isaiah 7:14 is a the misinterpretation of the Hebrew tanach. The Greek Septuagint took the word young women in the Hebrew tanach to their definition of virgin.

2. No where in the New Testament is Jesus lineage mention that he is related to King David, that is the assumption the reader makes. lineage in Judaism at that time was father-son. Not Stepfather(adopted father)-son.

3. Again, this gives stronger evidence that Jesus was not God. If god made it clear to all that the Messiah must come from David. Then this why there is so much confusion on if he is related or not. It should be clear as day if it was from god. If you do not believe that than god is not omniscience.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by renriq02

Mary is a descendant of Abraham


Mystery solved

we all our, that is why human DNA is 99% the same. Only one percent of our DNA is different from one another.

[renriq02]

that is incorrect as Abraham wasn't the first person it was Adam

Originally Posted by shibainu

we all our, that is why human DNA is 99% the same. Only one percent of our DNA is different from one another.

[ElleBebe]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dan

So we are to believe that Joseph and Mary were married but did not have sex. How else could Jesus have been born of a virgin?

"This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit." Matthew 1:18

When Jesus was conceived, Mary was an unmarried virgin. Mary and Joseph had children after Jesus was born; they didn't have a sexless marriage.