Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I really would hate to see churches and synagogues and temples and mosques lose tax exempt status because some of us don't like their point of view. Without the tax exempt status, many congregations of many different religions would be forced to close.
The truth is that if a congregation is forced to close because they no longer have tax-exempt status, they need to take a good long look at their finances. Donations made as a charitable organization are completely deductible, and so are overhead costs for a business, so if they are raking in enough money after paying the overhead costs and taking care of their charitable obligations to go under because of the taxes, they are actually making a HUGE profit.
Technically (and this has been borne out by our own congregation, which -does- file taxes), the tax offsets for running a business and the offsets for charitable donations by that business should completely offset the taxes, WITH OR WITHOUT tax exemption in a properly run charitable organization (including a church). The only exception may be property taxes, and most businesses can write off their property taxes as an overhead expense.
I said on an earlier post that we should distinguish between the churches that are run as businesses for the purpose of making profit and those that are sincerely trying to to help people. My sister's church in Montana sounds like it's pretty much penniless from what she tells me and the reason appears to be that they're actually spending their money on worthwhile causes. When she took a teaching job at a religious school in Guadalajara, Mexico she soon discovered that the school was lacking many things that a school needs to function. Her church in Montana has been trying to help out by donating money to people that they're never going to meet or have any contact with. I would never take away the tax exemptions from an organization like this one. This is completely different from the pathetic tv preachers who constantly plead for money while they live like movie stars. We need to put all of this in perspective before we talk about getting rid of the tax exemptions for religious organizations, they're not all the same.
I would never take away the tax exemptions from an organization like this one. This is completely different from the pathetic tv preachers who constantly plead for money while they live like movie stars. We need to put all of this in perspective before we talk about getting rid of the tax exemptions for religious organizations, they're not all the same.
I would say her church is a shining example of Christianity and what we're supposed to look like. And I agree with you about the televangelist extravaganzas because they're obviously making a profit and so much of it does nothing to glorify God.
It's amazing to me when I see the various religions of the world attacking each other. The fundamentalists are always attackings the Catholics and the Mormons and the Muslims are attacking any form of Christianity. I've stated on earlier posts that I think that religions should be taxed if their main purpose is to make a profit. That's the difference between a business and a legitimate religious cause. I've also noticed that this question has exposed the rivalries in religions who are competing with each other in the same society. All I can say is that I'm so glad I'm not religious.
What does that mean, that you're "...not religious..? I am only being curious here. I have read many of the posts and learn from them that there is much to learn or know and understand. I understand now that it is not "Christian or Catholic" bashing when discussing tax-exempt status of churches, or rather, I have a better understanding of the discussion.
What does that mean, that you're "...not religious..? I am only being curious here.
It means I'm an atheist and I don't believe in anything supernatural. What I was trying to say is that there are alot of well meaning people who are actually trying to help their fellow man and I don't think we should take away the tax exemption from those particular organizations. If an organization is being run as a business to make profit that's a different thing and I think they should be taxed. What I'm really getting at is that we should make a legal distinction between these two types or organizations and not penalize churches who are not in it for the money.
How about one step at a time and we first get rid of things like 'faith based initiative programs' enacted by this administration where we allocate money to faith based organizations. That's like a step backwards in separation of church and state. These organizations are getting the credit and leverage to spread religion because of charity work funded by the government. And we know the word faith based community initiative is misleading because most of that goes to a christian organizations. Might as well call it christian faith initiative. How about we stop this bullcrap first.
How about one step at a time and we first get rid of things like 'faith based initiative programs' enacted by this administration where we allocate money to faith based organizations.
I completely agree. This is nothing but a political stunt designed to promote a religious agenda and blur the separation of church and state. I was referring to legitimate religious organizations that are actually trying to help people.
Actually, not ALL religions have lobbyists. I know for a fact that our religion doesn't have a lobbyist (and although we have tax-exempt status, since we are a church and automatically have the exemption, we pay taxes), and I also know that there are other religions (the Jehovah's Witnesses, Amish, and a number of Buddhist sects, plus any number of alternative religions) that don't have lobbyists and don't claim their tax exemption, even though they are churches.
It is a bad habit to make sweeping generalizations in order to defend oneself, since they often come back to bite one on the posterior.
It is a reality that the largest worldwide lobby is now, and has for centuries been that of the Catholic church. It almost makes -sense- that the Catholic Church would have a powerful lobby, in that the FOUNDATION of the Catholic church is wholly secular to the point of being declared its own -country-. In that sense, the lobby for the Catholic Church is not a -religious- lobby, but is, in fact, a foreign government lobby.
In the United States, most of the Christian churches are not far behind the Catholic church in terms of real dollars (based on the 1985 dollar) spent in political/lobbying activities, and without the justification of being a country unto themselves -- even the smaller ones lobby through their affiliation with groups like Family First, American Family Association, Christian Coalition of America, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, and 3 dozen other "Christian Political Action Groups".
In comparison, ALL of the active non-Christian religious political action groups currently in existence number just over 3 dozen... and this includes the Jewish/Hebrew and Muslim lobbies, which share the same religious roots as Christianity... so the lobbies for every other religion represented by lobbyists does not even come up to matching the number available for just Christianity (without counting the Catholic lobby, which I have already addressed as a 'foreign-government lobby'). It is -not- Christian-bashing or Catholic-bashing to state the obvious... that these religious entities claim tax exemption in the US AND hold some of the most extensive and best funded lobbies, third only to the pharmaceutical and energy lobbies.
IF we were to be true to the Constitutional values put in place at the founding of this country, NO church would have an exemption, and the social services now being managed by our government would be returned to their rightful place-- to the churches and religious entities who are SUPPOSED to be committed to healing the sick, feeding the hungry, sheltering the poor, and clothing the naked. The fact that we have the homeless population that we have in this country, the number of young people who are illiterate and uneducated, the number of single mothers and babies going hungry every day is a testament to how far we have fallen from holding the true purpose of our religion. Instead, in our city neighborhood, the local churches (Methodist, Lutheran, Covenant, Baptist, and Catholic) with the ONE exception of the UU church (which many do not even consider to be a "real" religion) LOCK THEIR DOORS to keep the indigent from taking shelter from the heat and rain in their sanctuaries.
Freedom comes with a price, and the price of true religious freedom is that those who claim a religious perspective must also claim the responsibilities of picking up even the tedious and odious jobs that go along with one's religious path. It does -not- mean STEALING from the public coffers to pay people to change the laws in our favor. It -does- mean taking our place among those who serve their fellow man and protect the assets of the world in which we live. To claim secular freedom from responsibility because of one's religion without picking up the religious end of the responsibilities that counterbalance has consequences, and those consequences are creeping up on us more quickly every day. Soon enough, we will be buried in them, and will have lost not ONLY our religious freedom, but our dignity and our capacity to help one another.
Rev. Storm
What can I say? Learn something new every day, or with every post. I agree with everything you are saying and certainly about taking responsibilities for one's beliefs. Will admit that I simply do not understand tax-exempt status issues. Jonathan Sewall was quoted as saying something to the affect that problems imagined would become real, that he suspected the Catholic Church had a hand in the revolution and it would lead to eventual social deterioration. While I understand that any quote out of context can be misleading, this one left me with many questions and has stayed with me for years. I don't mind the bites since it only leads to a deeper understanding of the issues being discussed, and inadvertently (for me) addressing some of my unanswered questions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I agree with you about the televangelist extravaganzas because they're obviously making a profit and so much of it does nothing to glorify God.
