Does God punish "backsliders" to "lead them back home?"

[Roman6]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

How can he punish you without interfering with your free will? How can he "show" you something without violating your free will? In what capacity can he put an obstacle in your path without forcing you to violate your free will? In what capacity can he change the circumstances of something to benefit you without violating you or another person's free will?

Analogously, if you are driving down a highway with three lanes and you occupy the middle lane with nothing in front of you and all of a sudden a semi-truck appears right in front of you (an obstacle, if you will) at the behest of God you are forced to make a decision. Turn to the left lane. Turn to the right lane or barrel straight into it. He has intervened in your life to the point that you must make a decision implemented by this newly found obstacle that he has apparently forced upon you. He has also violated the driver of the semi-trucks' free will by altering his actions and reactions upon being placed in the middle of the highway.

How can anything, whether it be a slight nuance or very big event be considered the work of God if you have free will? How can things change in your life due to the works of God? You do not have free will if God intervenes in your life because every action must require a subsequent reaction. Even if those events lead you to turn away from God, you are doing so on accord of decisions made by those interferences in which you are compelled to make a choice.

If, for example, you feel that losing everything you own is a trial by God then the subsequent events leading up to losing everything you own must also be put in motion and place by God. This means that the bankers decision to foreclose on the home must be intervened by God, the decision of your boss to let you go must have been intervened with by God, the decision of the company to let the boss know that he must let someone go must be at the behest of God and the economic crisis causing the company to tell the boss to let you go so you can't pay the bill on the home and thus the banker tells you they are foreclosing means that everything must have been at the hands of God. Keep in mind - that is if you feel these are trials by God.

Take any event in your life, any event at all that you may feel could be a blessing or a "trial" by God and ask yourself if it could have happened without violation of you or someone else's free will. Could events that happened been able to happen if they were indeed "trials" or "blessings" without violating free will?

Could an event such as 9/11 been interfered with without violating the free will of the terrorists? No. Because it would mean that either God would have to reach into their mind, scramble their brain, and change their opinion, or he would have had to assemble a team of people that just so happened to make the "right" decision that day to examine their luggage a little better, ask them a few more questions at the ticket counter, etc...

Therefore, if we are to live in a completely free will world than I don't feel that a God would intervene for the good or the bad and all miracles as well as "trials" are simply and prudently coincidences. If this is incorrect and God does intervene and performs miracles as well as trials than we do not have free will but merely the suggestion of it. If we only have the suggestion of free will and God does indeed interfere on both ends of the spectrum, than I find him to be repugnant and salaciously horrible for allowing the things in this world that have happened to occur.

Thus, I think it's with a grain of salt that any person, believer or non-believer, should claim that they have been interacted with on a deistic level to claim that something profound has happened while simultaneously claiming free will. I don't think you can have free will both ways. I don't think it's logical to say that God intervenes but you also have free will.

What about if God asks the truck driver to park in the middle of the freeway, with the lights off until the last moment wen the said car is within a certain range, and the truck driver uses his free will to accept the request?

Many listen to God and accept, many listen to God and reject, many don't listen to God.

Jeremiah 25:7
Yet ye have not hearkened unto me, saith the LORD; that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.


All sins are judged upon Calvary. All a believer need do is acknowledge them and his relationship will be restored and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit once again.
Having said that, if you have been living a sinful life then acknowledging all your sins to God may take some tie. There may be some you have forgotten since you were saved!

[baront70]

Boy what you said ABOVE is deep. What most don't understand about God is he knew everything in eternity past. This is a software program the earth all of us are being played out. GOD IS (ROM) READ ONLY MEMORY. Yes he could have stopped twin towers or any situation good or bad. He only has to change 1 event as small as a second to stop whole scenario of events. FOR EXAMPLE CAUSED MALFUNCTION IN ENGINE OR DELAYED PLANES COMING IN FROM GETTING THERE. But you have to remember we are here to not build big houses and make this a better place to live. We are here for his benefit and to prove God's decision in eternity past to send Satan and his angels to lake of fire. THE ANGELIC CONFLICT UNFORTUNATELY CHURCHES DO NOT TEACH THIS. As Jesus states in Mathew 25:41 hell was made for them not the human race. We go to hell by not believing in the arbitrator Jesus Christ the only way to go to God is through the son. This is why the Muslims and Jews will go to lake of fire by not believing in the son
The Muslims are conquering the world including presidency and yet have nothing. Jesus states this the best what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE WORLD and loose his soul. THEY THINK THEY CAN GO STRAIGHT TO MAGNIFICENT PERFECT ETERNAL GOD. AS A LOOSER SINNER AND FULL OF HATRED AND BITTERNESS AND ARROGANCE AS SATAN WAS IN ISAIAH 14:17-22.
The Jews on the other hand have rejected the son. They still believe the Messiah hasn't came, or as it states in Revelation Chapter 12 the woman represents Israel and travailing means pregnant haven't given birth to Messiah and Satan is going to devour her and her unborn child and sentenced to Lake of Fire by not believing in Jesus Christ. AS STATES IN BIBLE IF YOU REJECT THE SON THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON YOU!!! Catholics believe it is mother Mary THEY ARE WRONG!!! Mary was no better then any of us she was chosen because she came from Nathans seed, King David's son and . she was a believer. One of the Lord's title is Son of David. Mary is human, sins all the time like the rest of us, standard equipment for the human race. Jesus never wanted us to put his mother on a pedestal as the Catholics do. THEY ARE WRONG AND CAUSING ABOMINATION TO THEMSELVES AND BEING AN ENEMY OF THE CROSS. SHE IS NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD, GOD DOESN'T HAVE A MOTHER SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF HIS HUMANITY ONLY. But as Jesus states in John 3: it is the second birth that counts Finally when God restored the earth in Genesis on the seventh day he rested (not tired). He did everything for man kind in those 6 days. Now it is playing out the earth is a plasma screen and the angels are watching for the out come, remember 1000 years a blink of God's eye.

[c.brons]

In response to baront70. Muslims do believe in the son(in the quaran he is called isah but he is the same person the bible calls jesus). It has been along time since ive read the quran and i dont have the book to quote from but i do believe it refers to him as the messiah and has many of the beliefs about the son as christians do. i am not muslim and cannot speak for muslims so i will start a thread about What do muslims believe about jesus. i think the muslims in this forum can provide you with quotes from the quran as well as their personal beliefs about the son.

[baront70]

boy wish that was true, the Muslims actually believe that Jesus Christ was a prophet. Jesus is not the son of God unless your a baby, unfortunately most Christians are babies as they still believe that way. Jesus is actually God in the flesh he became the arbitrator between mankind and himself and his perfection. None of us including all the people that wrote the Bible and the Koran or the Jewish Bible or the Buddhist viable or whatever of book that you can comprehend satanic book can compare to God's perfection. this is why he came down here to save the human race. you may have why did he do this? God created the Angels perfect in every way. He gave them everything in life that they could possibly want including perfect health perfect family perfect surroundings and yet we know that a third of them betrayed him. This is called the angelic conflict,this is actually angels against Angels. God has one ingredient that most people don't know,that he has a huge sense of humor. Satan, his adversary who was by the way the top angel in the heavens his disposition was guardian of the throne. Who was given the top award. Who was the most beautiful creature that came from the hand of God. Who had the voice of a pipe organ.Satan Who shimmered like gold, basically looked into the mirror and said that I am God. As the states in Isaiah 14 verse 17 through 22. what is really sad is that the Muslims think just like Satan that they can go straight to God even with their imperfections. As Jesus states in

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your FATHER the devil, and the lusts of your FATHER ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the FATHER of it.