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Old 12-23-2008, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Missouri
629 posts, read 692,936 times
Reputation: 280

Quote:
It sounds like telling people about Jesus is the worst thing you can do. You're sending them to hell. Shame on you christians.
Thats true. People who are left in ignorance are far better off than those who are contacted by Christians and then put in the position if they question or do not believe are condemned, at least to eternal death, or even hell, depending on what they believe. They at least get a second chance.

And I think if I was stood before the throne of God or found myself in Paradise, that would be a slightly bigger incentive to believe.
.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,215 posts, read 3,657,707 times
Reputation: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
So if you pray you get to heaven? It says in the bible that you have to accept Jesus to get in heaven.

3 ways to get to heaven?

1. In the OT you had to do animal sacrifices and have a priest go to god for you.

2. Jesus.

3. This one you just said in your previous post that if you never heard of Jesus you will be judged by god based on your actions.

Which brings up another contradiction. It also says it's your faith and not works (actions) that will get you into heaven.

Keep 'em coming because I'm hitting them out of the park so far.
You must read the context of the scripture you are talking about. When it says 'come to the father', it isnt talking about a literal journey to heaven. It's talking about approaching the father in prayer. In order to approach the father thru prayer, one must pray through Jesus Christ.

In the OT, man's dealings with God were different and they approached him differently. The priest did offer sacrifices for the people and this was pleasing to God. However,with the arrival of Christ, sacrifices of that sort were no longer needed. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. Incidentally, nothing is ever said about 'getting' to heaven' based on the sacrifices of ancient Israel. So that point is moot.

'Faith Without Works is Dead'. This is not a contradiction. It is supplementary information and again, context is key. Believing in Christ is evidently not enough since the demons themselves believe in Christ. It is important to SHOW you have faith by your actions...it's a natural part of our relationship with God.

Care to swing again?
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,602 posts, read 17,757,941 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxolan View Post
That's a rather smug answer which doesn't really explain anything.
And anyway, yeah, don't discuss evolution in every single thread please.
It is not my statement, but a quote from the link I provided...
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,602 posts, read 17,757,941 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi sanspeur,

Really ? There is a theory about the Toba caldera in New Zealand being an ancient super volcano to explain the genetic bottleneck that seems to appear in humans. In other words "incest".

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Population bottleneck (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Population-bottleneck - broken link).

So in other words people are trying to explain something they see in Human DNA that you say is not the case.

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Population bottleneck (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Population-bottleneck - broken link)
I didn't say incest never happened, I think it was common in some societies but it is not necessary for evolution.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 3,073,797 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenevada View Post
You must read the context of the scripture you are talking about. When it says 'come to the father', it isnt talking about a literal journey to heaven. It's talking about approaching the father in prayer. In order to approach the father thru prayer, one must pray through Jesus Christ.

In the OT, man's dealings with God were different and they approached him differently. The priest did offer sacrifices for the people and this was pleasing to God. However,with the arrival of Christ, sacrifices of that sort were no longer needed. Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. Incidentally, nothing is ever said about 'getting' to heaven' based on the sacrifices of ancient Israel. So that point is moot.

'Faith Without Works is Dead'. This is not a contradiction. It is supplementary information and again, context is key. Believing in Christ is evidently not enough since the demons themselves believe in Christ. It is important to SHOW you have faith by your actions...it's a natural part of our relationship with God.

Care to swing again?
You're not answering how you just said that you can get into heaven without having known Jesus and basing it on your actions. I'm still waiting to see how that is explained.

Again if god is unchanging why the major shift from sacrifice to savior? I think there were probably some rational people back then and saw that it was all a sham and the religious had to change their game plan.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,215 posts, read 3,657,707 times
Reputation: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
You're not answering how you just said that you can get into heaven without having known Jesus and basing it on your actions. I'm still waiting to see how that is explained.

Again if god is unchanging why the major shift from sacrifice to savior? I think there were probably some rational people back then and saw that it was all a sham and the religious had to change their game plan.

Nope, I said you can receive everlasting life after having learned about God and taking his side. Everyone on earth will eventually have an opportunity to learn about God and take in knowledge of his purposes. Those who have died before they had that opportunity will be ressurected and given that chance.

There was no shift. They are both 'sacrifices'. One sacrifice took the place of all others.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:02 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 1,515,210 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
You're not answering how you just said that you can get into heaven without having known Jesus and basing it on your actions. I'm still waiting to see how that is explained.
In his letter to the Romans, the apostle Paul made reference to people knowing God by the evidence of creation. It doesn't say they're saved by their knowledge of nature--but only that they know that there is a God. I also know that God reveals himself to those that seek him. I guess an example of that would be Philip meeting the Ethiopan eunuch. The eunuch was seeking God--and God provided for his desire to know him.
Quote:


Again if god is unchanging why the major shift from sacrifice to savior? I think there were probably some rational people back then and saw that it was all a sham and the religious had to change their game plan.
There isn't a major shift. Read the book of Hebrews. It lays it out nicely. We still have a sacrifice to make. Atonement is only through the offering of blood. Christ takes the place of the lamb, though--and makes a one-time sacrifice for all time.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
521 posts, read 559,237 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenevada View Post
Nope, I said you can receive everlasting life after having learned about God and taking his side. Everyone on earth will eventually have an opportunity to learn about God and take in knowledge of his purposes. Those who have died before they had that opportunity will be ressurected and given that chance.

There was no shift. They are both 'sacrifices'. One sacrifice took the place of all others.
So instead of requiring idividual sacrifices, god changed his mind and sacrificed himself?
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:06 AM
 
12,609 posts, read 8,065,690 times
Reputation: 4699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I didn't say incest never happened, I think it was common in some societies but it is not necessary for evolution.
Hi sanspeur,

I think it absolutely necessary for evolution. FYI: You posted something on natural selection which is not a main driver for any evolutionary theory that I know. It is a process that may tease out certain traits in a population that already exists.
I never believed in Darwinian evolution and gradualism and I am not about to change now. I am open to anything that agrees with the facts and gradualism does not. In order for such rapid change to happen inbreeding is about the only thing that makes sense to me to have a significant population.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,215 posts, read 3,657,707 times
Reputation: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by forkpower View Post
So instead of requiring idividual sacrifices, god changed his mind and sacrificed himself?

Jehovah knew that a 'perfect' sacrifice would be necessary to buy back the life that perfect human Adam lost. So Jesus, his son, was always going to be sacrificed. The other sacrifices served different purposes but all of them foreshadowed that ultimate sacrifice.
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