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Old 01-02-2009, 09:19 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,422 times
Reputation: 32

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
from earth do we see the earth as sphere ?no we see it as flat
it is relativity

if some one is sitting by a west sea one hour before sunset
he will see the sun is moving to him until it goes down the sea horizon
actually the sun was not moving
he is the one who was moving
it is relativity

Yes people who lived 1400 years ago did not have space shuttles to look at the earth from outside of it

But how come an illiterate person like Muhammad knew that the world is a sphere and also the son and the earth both travels on its own orbits.

Yes this could be a guess. But the important is that the Quran mentioned it 1400 years ago so many guesses accurately without any error even according to the modern science.

If the Quran was not from the creator who would have known all these stuff acurately in 1400 years ago
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:51 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,422 times
Reputation: 32
Hi mzjamiedawn

There is nothing to apologize on your reply because it is much clear to do it like that

Ok i got your point

When a Muslim is allowed to marry a maximum of four wives, how is it that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had eleven wives?

Yes it is a very good question which even most of the Muslims have an answer

It is like this
If you take a head of State (eg. President of a country)
he is a citizen and he is also treated equally by the law

But there are certain special favors given to him like for an eg.
When he is travelling the other citizens are forcefully stopped entering the area (or limitations are imposed)
Dosent this violate the law of where any human can travel in a public area freely

Yes this is done considering security threats to the head of state

likewise prophet Muhammed was the leader he too had granted special favors from the creator on certain things.

It may look like he had a high sexual desire

but to understand this we need to go in to detail which i will quote as follows. For a clear understanding please read the entire content (it may be lengthy) If not there is no way i can explain it in a way you can understand

The Qur’an, in Surah Nisa, chapter 4 verse 3, states that a Muslim is allowed to marry a maximum of only four wives. Another verse in the Qur’an makes Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an exception to this rule.
In Surah Ahzab chapter 33 verse 52:

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

This verse clearly gives Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the permission to keep all his previous wives but prohibits him to marry any more women except those which his right hand possessed i.e. slave girls.

The Prophet (pbuh) was allowed to keep all his previous wives because no one was allowed to marry the Prophet’s wives (ra) after they were divorced or widowed as they were ummul-momineen (mother of the believers)

People falsely accuse the Prophet (pbuh) of being hypersexual, because he had eleven wives. If you read the life history of the Prophet (pbuh), only two of his marriages one with Khadija (ra), and the other, with Ayesha (ra) were marriages in the normal course. All his other marriages were contracted as a necessity and were based on various considerations.

The first marriage of the Prophet (pbuh) took place when he was 25 years of age and he married Khadija (ra) who was twice widowed, and was 40 years old. If the Prophet (pbuh) was hypersexual, why would he marry a woman who was 15 years older than him and already twice widowed?

Until his first wife, Khadija (ra) was alive, he never took a second wife. Khadija (ra) expired when the Prophet (pbuh) was 50 years age and only after this, did he marry the others. If he married eleven wives for sexual reasons, he should have had multiple wives during his youth. Contrary to this, history tells us that all his marriages with his remaining ten wives took place when he was between the age of 53 and 59 years.

All his wives (ra) were between the age of 36 to 50 years, except for two wives (ra). His reputation had spread far and wide, not only in Arabia, but also in the neighboring countries. Could he not have easily got younger and lovelier girls to marry? Most of his marriages were for political gain and for the spread of Islaam.

In Arabia, no one could carry on the work of reform and upliftment unless he belonged to, or was related to some specific and respectable tribe. Thus, in the interest of his mission, the Prophet (pbuh) needed inter-tribal relationships. He wanted to weld the quarreling tribal and clannish factions into one Muslim ummah, as brethren in faith (Ikhwan fi’d-din).

For instance, his wife Juwayreeyah (ra) belonged to the Banu Mustaliq clan, which was very powerful. The entire clan was a bitter enemy of Islam from the start, and they were finally suppressed by military action. When the Prophet (pbuh) married Juwayreeyah (ra), the Muslims released all their prisoners, saying that they could not keep the prophet’s relatives in bondage. It was due to this marriage that the whole clan of Banu Mustaliq accepted Islam and became peaceful and obedient to the laws of the new Islaamic state.

Maymunah (ra) also came from a very powerful and recalcitrant clan from Najd and was the sister of the wife of the chief of the clan in those days. It was this clan which had brutally murdered seventy members of an Islaamic missionary deputation. The Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage with Maymunah (ra) changed the whole atmosphere and Najd accepted Madinah’s authority under the leadership of the Prophet (pbuh).

Umm Habibah (ra) was the daughter of the Quraysh chief, Abu Sufyan. It was after the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Umm Habibah, that Abu Sufyan never fought against the Prophet (pbuh). This marriage was largely responsible for the conquest of Makkah. Furthermore, Umm Habibah was first married to a certain Ubaydullah and emigrated with him to Abyssinia, where Ubaydullah became a Christian and a drunkard. Excessive consumption of wine killed him since it was a double shock to her that her husband had become a Christian and later died, she was badly in need of solace.

Safiyyah (ra) was the daughter of a very prominent Jewish chief, Huyyah ibn Aktab. In consideration of her family status, she could not be merged into an ordinary household. So the Prophet (pbuh) himself married her. After this marriage, the Jews did not dare to revive their opposition to the Prophet (pbuh) and his mission.

In the case of Hafsah (ra), it was the Prophet’s (pbuh) desire to bind in relationship with those of his great companions (sahabah) who were his advisers and who were trained for future leadership. He had married Abu Bakr’s (ra) daughter, married two of his own daughters to Uthman (ra) and one to ‘Ali (ra). ‘Umar (ra) could not be kept outside this wide circle of relationship. By marrying Umar’s daughter Hafsah (ra), the Prophet (pbuh) forged a strong bond of relationship within the Islamic movement thus strengthening the pillars of the ummah.

The Prophet (pbuh) had married his first cousin, Zaynab (ra), to his freed slave, Zayd ibn Haritha (ra), whom he had adopted as his son. This marriage of Zaynab (ra) with Zayd (ra) was intended to break the family and social barriers, but the marriage did not prove to be successful and ended in divorce. When the Prophet (pbuh) saw that Zaynab (ra) was left alone, he felt his responsibility in the matter. He also had to break another convention, according to which an adopted son became a real son. This difficult problem was solved by the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Zaynab (ra) (as mentioned in the Qur’an, in Surah Ahzab, chapter no 33 verse 37) to annul that pre-Islamic conception and promulgate an Islamic law instead.

Another lady Zaynab (ra), Umm al Masakin (mother of the poor and helpless), daughter of Khuzayma ibn Al-Haith, belonged to the Hawazin clan. Her husband was killed in the battle of Uhud. To rescue her from widowhood, the Prophet (pbuh) took her as his wife.

After the revelation of the verse in Surah Ahzab, chapter 33 verse 52, the Prophet (pbuh) only married Mary the Copt who was a slave girl sent as a present by the Christian Muqauqas of Egypt. Since the Christian Chieftain of Egypt sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) a slave girl as a present, he could not refuse this gift as a refusal would have disturbed the political alliance. He could not keep her as a slave girl, since Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) preached that slaves should be freed. The only option left with him was to marry her, since the Qur’an gave him the permission to do so. Later on she became the mother of Ibrahim (ra) who died in his infancy.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:16 PM
 
154 posts, read 242,422 times
Reputation: 32
Default Males Vs Females

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Sorry for adding my words in your quote, was just easier.

So what is the solution if not someone marrying more than one women
is it that your solution is prostitution?
Yeah...because if a woman doesn't marry, she will definitely become a prostitute? Come on...some of the things you say make absolutely no sense.
Yes all of us agree that humans by nature prefers in lovemaking

but according to world statistics there are more females than males
but there could be certain statistical reports that would be the opposite.

As all of we know statistics is not always correct. because it assumes certain things and gets the data from samples. So there can be errors on it.

But if we consider the normal male vs female birth ratio it is almost 1 : 1
but in general females have a higher immunity system that the male babies.

then when they grow up males are more likely to be killed by accidents , terror attacks ..etc

Where finally the male population would be less than the female population.

So if every male marry a women there should be more women available who cannot find a partner.

So what is the option available. either they should marry a man who is already married or she should sacrifice her sexual and other desires or she should go out with a man out of marriage.

out of these three options the second one isn't it fare to ask them do it.

yes you could go on with the third option. isn't this called prostitution.
What rights the women gets out of this relationship.

But the only feasible option is a women marrying a man who is already married.

God the creator of the universe knows what is the reality. he only knows the exact count of males and females. and he allows a man to marry more than one women only if he can afford to do it and treat all equally.

Isnt this look a feasible solution.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
839 posts, read 982,370 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samankaru View Post
Yes people who lived 1400 years ago did not have space shuttles to look at the earth from outside of it

But how come an illiterate person like Muhammad knew that the world is a sphere and also the son and the earth both travels on its own orbits.

Yes this could be a guess. But the important is that the Quran mentioned it 1400 years ago so many guesses accurately without any error even according to the modern science.

If the Quran was not from the creator who would have known all these stuff acurately in 1400 years ago
Contrary to popular belief, many societies existing long before Muhammed believed that the the Earth was round; many Greeks who lived a thousand years before Muhammed certainly did. The notion that the Earth was round wasn't all that uncommon in Muhammed's day; societies with a relatively low level of skill in geometry could figure out, and did.
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
839 posts, read 982,370 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samankaru View Post
Yes all of us agree that humans by nature prefers in lovemaking

but according to world statistics there are more females than males
but there could be certain statistical reports that would be the opposite.

As all of we know statistics is not always correct. because it assumes certain things and gets the data from samples. So there can be errors on it.

But if we consider the normal male vs female birth ratio it is almost 1 : 1
but in general females have a higher immunity system that the male babies.

then when they grow up males are more likely to be killed by accidents , terror attacks ..etc

Where finally the male population would be less than the female population.

So if every male marry a women there should be more women available who cannot find a partner.

So what is the option available. either they should marry a man who is already married or she should sacrifice her sexual and other desires or she should go out with a man out of marriage.

out of these three options the second one isn't it fare to ask them do it.

yes you could go on with the third option. isn't this called prostitution.
What rights the women gets out of this relationship.

But the only feasible option is a women marrying a man who is already married.

God the creator of the universe knows what is the reality. he only knows the exact count of males and females. and he allows a man to marry more than one women only if he can afford to do it and treat all equally.

Isnt this look a feasible solution.
That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read... You do realize that in some societies, such as China, men outnumber women, right? And, of course, there are gay men and lesbians. There are people who don't care to marry, too.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
970 posts, read 1,699,953 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ever Adrift View Post
That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read... You do realize that in some societies, such as China, men outnumber women, right? And, of course, there are gay men and lesbians. There are people who don't care to marry, too.
Not to mention people who are in a relationship with different persons throughout their lives, whether they divorce or do not get married in the first place. This is not prostitution - frankly, I find the very idea insulting.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:50 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,859,942 times
Reputation: 4041
Quote:
Originally Posted by samankaru View Post
Stop! Do you believe in god? If you are a believer then are you sure? And if you are an atheist, are you sure? How come you claim to be the most rational being on the planet and you don't give yourself time to think about this? Ok so today your puzzle comes to an end.
I will pose some questions first and you just check if they match with yours.


How old are you? Let's say 20, 25 ok 30. Before 35 years nobody knew you, are you kidding how would they know, you were just not here! Maybe today you are the superstar or the minister, after, say 100 years will you be here? Don't tell me you are going to live up to 200 years or so. So why on this earth did you come for such a short period? Who sent you?


Ok now I need your help here, you need to recall something. Please recall the last time you fell into a trouble or a danger. Didn't you look up and ask help from god, maybe not your tongue because it got so hard, but your inside, your heart? Of course it craved for god or if you are getting irritated at the word 'god' maybe superpower or mother nature is a more appropriate word. Even if you didn't call upto god you did ask to someone superior to you, and I challenge you in that. You did that! Now if you find yourself self sufficient why did you beg and ask? Why does every time some calamity befalls you, you become angry at god?


Materialism has enslaved you, it is continuously serving your body, but are you just a machine? Don't you feel that you have something called natural inclination along with your intellect? Yes you feel that but you keep on ignoring till you reach your end. Sweden , one of the most beautiful countries of the world, meeting all the materialistic needs of it's people, have the highest rate of suicide. WHY???


Every single thing around you is going in such harmony. Have you thought for a moment what would happen to you if the earth moves an inch closer to the sun, or if the percentage of oxygen in air increased by points? you would be instantly destroyed. How are these non living things, possessing no brains to think running in such beautiful system?


Let's rearrange the questions, Who sent you? Why do you always ask a superpower to help when you find yourself helpless? Why are these people killing themselves? How are these things running in such a beautiful system? The answer is one, God Almighty, the One. He is the one Who sent you, He is the one whom you ask purposely or ignorantly, He is the One people's hearts are craving but when they keep ignoring constantly their heart dies away and thus they kill their body, and He is the One and Only One Who is running all the beautiful systems.



Who is this God the creator of this universe?


Doing everything in a perfect manner. Do you think that he would have not sent his message (The purpose of life) in a perfect manner


What is this perfect message?
How can we find this perfect message?


All religious scriptures and leaders claim they have the perfect message


How can we differentiate the perfect message from the fake ?
because there could be only one perfect message. all others should be fakes.





Lets start evaluating ... with the brain the creator has given us.
This guy is wierd, not very original, is very judgemental, has a skewed perspective, and full of absurd notions -(among other things). It is an old specie of feces trying to dress itself up in a raggedy coat.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,332 posts, read 2,839,366 times
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There are two reasons to believe in God? One, because He exists, and the consequence of believing in him is more that a matter of physically experieinced fact and amasement. He means the possibility of overcoming oneself and realizing the community in roles to participate as. That is at this point not quite focused on Christian Ethics.
Two, because an active individual wants to participate his role consistently in the society He is open towards with the empowered acceptance.

Three, it's all more than participating in one's Life as a job.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
244 posts, read 299,027 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwowl View Post
I have trouble with a "concept" of fear. Would you help me extracting it from abstract terminology while freeing those left in the gaps from their alienation?
Fear in this context is the fear of Damnation; the fear that if one does not follow the proscriptions of God's commands that they will be banished to eternal damnation in hell.

Does this help? Fear is a great subject and there are plenty of world archetypes that illustrate it better.
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Old 01-03-2009, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
244 posts, read 299,027 times
Reputation: 170
Isn't it obvious that the passion exhibited here is simply a matter of faith? Isn't it also obvious that no form of relgious dogma is without error? Anyone who says that a relgious template is not written by the and of a fallable human being is deluding themselves. If you were writing, or were responsible for writing the most sacred form of a cultural belief, wouldn't it be in your best interest to be biased and convincing?

Faith often leads to blind following. Who would want to believe that their faith is flawed?

I wonder if the interpretation of "Spreading the Earth" is metaphorical. Can't icing be spread on a round cake? Spreading land like one makes a bed does not necessarily mean that the earth is flat like a bed. It could mean that the same care and deference to the place one sleeps...

Saying that Muslims are the most chaste because they hide their bodies and emotions does not make it so. Is it better to lust after chocolate and not keep in the house, or have chocolate in the house and have the self-control to eat small portions of it occasionally?

I admire this gentleman who is willing to stand up for himself and answer questions put to him. I also applaud him for being able to communicate in another language, regardless if he uses other peoples' words to make his point better than he thinks he can for himself.

I am thankful for this forum to be able to witness the genuine efforts of all of you to say what is on your mind. Debate is good. The fealessness to think about someone else's opinion, whatever we may think of it, is good. Fear spreads death; a lack of understanding breeds fear.

Keep up the good work.
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