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Old 03-28-2010, 11:42 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,313,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
What should be used to prove the Bible is obvious statements made by the Bible. Such statements showing us fulfilled prophecies, and historical discoveries that confirm those statements. And that is where you will find the empirical evidence. And often, that is the evidence that is (IGNORED) by the non believers of the Bible. The prophecies of the Jewish people returning to the land of Israel in the Last Days is a perfect example. The Bible tells us they would first take back southern Israel which they did in the year 1948, and then it tells us secondly they would retake Jerusalem. Which they did in 1967. The Bible tells us, that at the sametime we would see Jerusalems East Gate with a Porch Gate added to it, and that Gate would be sealed up. And all attempts to open it would fail until the Prince to come would open it. They hate to hear these prophecies, and that's because, they are true.
That isn't using the Bible to prove the Bible, though.

The Christian doesn't try to prove anything, because his desire is for those who want to be saved to be saved; not to persuade evil people to affect belief. That's Satan's work. The Christian preaches the good news of Jesus' sacrifice for sins, greets those who love that news, and then walks away with them, leaving the rest.

(A lot of believers don't accept that analysis of modern history of the State of Israel, so-called, anyway.)
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,802 posts, read 9,618,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The prophecies of the Jewish people returning to the land of Israel in the Last Days is a perfect example.
Already debunked in another thread
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,963,977 times
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[quote=Campbell34;13490198]
Quote:
What should be used to prove the Bible is obvious statements made by the Bible.
Then obviously error laden statements in this bible must be used to discredit it, by your logic.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:06 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,313,551 times
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[quote=Arjay51;13490562]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post

Then obviously error laden statements in this bible must be used to discredit it, by your logic.
No, internal contradictions can prove the Bible inadequate without that logic- if they exist.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:14 PM
 
113 posts, read 154,300 times
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Default Prophecy errors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Such statements showing us fulfilled prophecies, and historical discoveries that confirm those statements. And that is where you will find the empirical evidence.

The Bible tells us they would first take back southern Israel which they did in the year 1948,

Wasn't it given to them in 1948 by Great Britain, who had control of it, as Palestine, until then? Is this considered "taking it back?"

History of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and then it tells us secondly they would retake Jerusalem. Which they did in 1967.

Who had taken it from them, in order that they would then "take it back"? Are you talking about the 6 Days War, where they simply defended themselves against a general attack from the allied Arab nations? Is that "taking it back"?

The Bible tells us, that at the sametime we would see Jerusalems East Gate with a Porch Gate added to it, and that Gate would be sealed up. And all attempts to open it would fail until the Prince to come would open it. They hate to hear these prophecies, and that's because, they are true.
Who has ever tried to open the gate so far, as described in your so-called prophecy? Where was this documented? CNN?

Has a Porch been added? Photos?

You also seem fixated on this particular prophecy. Hows about listing a few others. Didn't you say there have been many of them proven out so far? Tell us, please.

I'd say you don't have a very good case, Campbell34, and I'm a sometime Christian.
But ancient fables are still fables, after all, and many have outlived their usefulness in this modern day and age of education. Let's not try to look foolish on purpose!
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,802 posts, read 9,618,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thotful1 View Post


I'd say you don't have a very good case, Campbell34, and I'm a sometime Christian.
But ancient fables are still fables, after all, and many have outlived their usefulness in this modern day and age of education. Let's not try to look foolish on purpose!
Ah! A voice of reason from our theist brethren. Well said Sir/Madam.
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:01 PM
 
37,342 posts, read 25,151,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Ah! A voice of reason from our theist brethren. Well said Sir/Madam.
Atheists have found the easiest, most effective and SATISFYING way to support their indefensible position is to continue to highlight and debate with the bible literalists. They seem unable to develop sufficient philosophical perspicacity to even see the irrationality of the fundamentals that underlie their position. They prefer to call any attempts to enlighten them "obfuscation" instead of recognizing that it involves thinking above their pay grade . . . Very frustrating! Poor Matrix has yet to see that it is THEIR intellectual incapacity and NOT HIS inability to explain the philosophical points that is responsible.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-28-2010 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:45 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,660,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
That isn't using the Bible to prove the Bible, though.

The Christian doesn't try to prove anything, because his desire is for those who want to be saved to be saved; not to persuade evil people to affect belief. That's Satan's work. The Christian preaches the good news of Jesus' sacrifice for sins, greets those who love that news, and then walks away with them, leaving the rest.

(A lot of believers don't accept that analysis of modern history of the State of Israel, so-called, anyway.)



The Bible is a Book that is filled with knowledge.

And the Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16 (ALL SCRIPTURE) is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correction and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be throughly equipped for every good work.

What Christians are suppose to be doing is to convince people with the truth.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian who does not try to prove anything by God's Word, is someone who is being used by the Devil.
And a lot of believers don't know their Bible, and that is why they don't accept the State of Israel. Yet, if anyone of them, actually took the time to read the prophecies found in Ezekiel 36,37,38, and 39. They would know that God is allowing the Jewish people to return to Israel in the Last days to anger the nations. And this is not somekind of hidden prophecy.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:07 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,660,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thotful1 View Post
Who has ever tried to open the gate so far, as described in your so-called prophecy? Where was this documented? CNN?

Has a Porch been added? Photos?

You also seem fixated on this particular prophecy. Hows about listing a few others. Didn't you say there have been many of them proven out so far? Tell us, please.

I'd say you don't have a very good case, Campbell34, and I'm a sometime Christian. But ancient fables are still fables, after all, and many have outlived their usefulness in this modern day and age of education. Let's not try to look foolish on purpose!



LOL Oh did CNN exist in 1917?

And what would it matter what prophecy I put forth here. If you can't believe the obvious. How could you ever believe the complex?

And before you start calling the Bible a fable, maybe it would be a good idea to educate yourself on it's prophecies. Otherwise, you will just be another talking head here, who has no knowledge of what you are speaking about. And I have a very good case here. The problem I believe is, you have little or no knowledge on the topic.

The EAST Gate In Alignment With Holy of Holies (http://www.excel.net/~hoy/east-tab.html - broken link)
http://www.friendster.com/forums/post/list/24/1701 (broken link)

Last edited by Campbell34; 03-28-2010 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,990 posts, read 30,617,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Atheists have found the easiest, most effective and SATISFYING way to support their indefensible position is to continue to highlight and debate with the bible literalists. They seem unable to develop sufficient philosophical perspicacity to even see the irrationality of the fundamentals that underlie their position. They prefer to call any attempts to enlighten them "obfuscation" instead of recognizing that it involves thinking above their pay grade . . . Very frustrating! Poor Matrix has yet to see that it is THEIR intellectual incapacity and NOT HIS inability to explain the philosophical points that is responsible.
Yes, you and he both like to use chop logic.

chop logic: Complicated, often illogical or spurious argumentation.
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