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Sometimes, I think the intent is not to discuss but to preach. I suppose there must be extra-credit for attempting conversions or saving atheists / heathens. Some can preach only by inserting long bibical quotes - they try do to us what was done to them - this is what the book says and thou shall believe it!!
How do you deal with it? You can't deal with it. This kind of reasoning has been used on me plenty of times in this forum. It just becomes really frustrating. You can't debate a logical argument against an illogical argument, you just end up banging your head against a brick wall. Nobody gets anywhere and the point is never really discussed in depth. The trouble is that believers think it is a valid argument because they believe the bible to be a credible source of information in fact the ultimate authority so of course it is the only reference they need. What they fail to realise is that the skeptic needs more than that to be satisfied with a conclusion.
Another way that they argue themselves out of a hole is to try to change the subject to where they feel they are on more solid ground. Which again can be really annoying when you are reading a thread and someone asks a really good question and it is completely ignored because something completely beside the point is being argued.
It's good to see a thread that is not going to be full of bible quotes. If anyone starts doing that they prove the point.
Just wait until a certain person sees this thread. You will get scripture quotes out the ying yang.
No the skeptic needs Jesus Christ Lord and Saviour in their heart to understand His word,without the heart it is just a bunch of words on a page that becomes highly critical and misunderstood. There has to be a change of heart for understanding.
It does not take long as usual for a thread to go off topic.
Noland - just a quick comment.
You are making a statement based upon a result which requires the respondent to obviously read the book before that result can be achieved. Granted this does not apply to someone indoctrinated from birth as part of the process is already established.
You need Jesus to understand the bible. Where do I find Jesus? Read the bible.
Some may suggest a magic prayer but usually that does not work.
So if it is a bunch of words on a page and one starts to read (innocently) assuming no indoctrination was there to begin with meaning any form of peer pressure too, then the words will remain words.
The biggest flaw in Christianity IMO is it wrongly "teaches" folk that they are the skum of the earth and they really need a saviour to rescue them from (insert eschatology mind warp here) and then hope they buy the fear tactics.
It then proceeds to maintain said fear and then convince folk to deny logic and reason and accept "as a little child" (always taken out of context) to believe stuff that is parabolic or allegorical. I maintain my logic and reason and can accept certain things and dismiss others while having a belief/faith - I always defer to WWJD/say.
If you look at stats of "born-agains" by age group (got it from a Billy Graham book) the older the person gets, the less likely they are to become BA. So getting them young is important.
I do believe in God but not the one the American evengelical espouses - I use mainly a NKJV and other supporting translations for study purposes but I do challenge your premise. John 6:44
Again, another shining example of someone who just didn't get it.
I have NEVER....I mean NEVER....heard another believer say they would use scripture to DEFEND scripture. What I have heard (repeatedly) is using scripture to interpret scripture....as in weighing all scripture against the whole bible and not pulling things out of context to suit your own agenda.
So we don't use the bible to prove the bible but rather use the bible to interpret the bible.
Now I may tell you that a biblical truth or verse are why I believe what I believe, but that's using the bible to prove my beliefs....not the bible itself.
I agree with Alpha here,the OP doesn't make much sense here and haven't heard it put this way either. Defend scripture with scripture using the Bible to prove the Bible,like Deguire stated about being in a fog,those statements defintely are.
Last edited by noland123; 12-29-2008 at 06:52 PM..
Can you provide some examples of prophecies that have come true? I am interested in researching this.
In Ezekiel 36 and 37 it talks about the Jews and Israel. It states that the Jews will one day be scattered around the world, but only to return back to the land of Israel. It states that Israel will be under ONE ruler and will be ONE nation. In Zechariah 12 it states that the Jews (in the end days) will be surrounded by enemies.
On a side note, God says that He is not returning the Jews back to Israel for their sake, but instead to reveal Himself to the world. In a nutshell, as more and more Jews return to Israel and become established it will increasingly lead to world war 3 and that is when God shows the world who really is in control.
Here are websites about prophecies that HAVE come true:
In Ezekiel 36 and 37 it talks about the Jews and Israel. It states that the Jews will one day be scattered around the world, but only to return back to the land of Israel. It states that Israel will be under ONE ruler and will be ONE nation. In Zechariah 12 it states that the Jews (in the end days) will be surrounded by enemies.
On a side note, God says that He is not returning the Jews back to Israel for their sake, but instead to reveal Himself to the world. In a nutshell, as more and more Jews return to Israel and become established it will increasingly lead to world war 3 and that is when God shows the world who really is in control.
Here are websites about prophecies that HAVE come true:
I could never understand these prophecies.
If one start searching for signs of any prediction, they can find it anywhere. Just like Nostradamus prophecies, did they come true? Just because it's already written, we can take it and use it in any way possible.
I predict that somewhere 50 years from now, some great person will be born, who will be the greatest, the mightiest, the water ever you want that person to be. Sure enough, some clever person finds my prediction and kaboom! that almighty person is born. Will this person be exactly what i said he'd be? Anyone can make anyone to be whatever they want them to be to "fulfill" their own agendas by reading some old predictions.
Same with prediction of JC birth, virgin Mary and all that. How convenient would that be? Mary was a sinner, she got pregnant, some smarty pants saw this as an opportunity to create a "virgin" birth and her son being Jesus, after all, there is a prophecy about that, so let's make it happen! Was Mary a virgin, or was she sleeping around elsewhere and got pregnant out of the wedlock?? Uh oh....
All the Jews prophecies are pretty much the same, the gate, the jews coming home, etc... You know, i don't believe that of the Jews will ever gather in one spot. Impossible!
Thread's not on prophecy folks....try and stick to the topic....
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