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150, 315, 1100 years ago? Over in the Christian forum is a thread that sparked my other thread about Christian giddiness over Israel and the drama going on over there. SOME Christians have stated that Israel's statehood in 1948 represented the start of the latter phase of biblical prophesy and has not accelerated the end times into high gear. As a result, Jesus could be cracking the skies at any moment and magically levitating folks off the earth like a Star Trek episode.
So what I want to know is this. If it was going to take Israel's statehood as a precursor to Jesus returning, why the heck would Christians more than 60 years ago ever anticipate Jesus' return in their time? Why would the Millerites (forerunners of the Seventh Day Adventists) even think about giving away all their earthly possessions and waiting in a field for a returning Jesus almost 200 years ago? Why would Christians in, say, in 629 C.E be "looking up" for a returning Jesus when at the time the Jews had no homeland?
150, 315, 1100 years ago? Over in the Christian forum is a thread that sparked my other thread about Christian giddiness over Israel and the drama going on over there. SOME Christians have stated that Israel's statehood in 1948 represented the start of the latter phase of biblical prophesy and has not accelerated the end times into high gear. As a result, Jesus could be cracking the skies at any moment and magically levitating folks off the earth like a Star Trek episode.
So what I want to know is this. If it was going to take Israel's statehood as a precursor to Jesus returning, why the heck would Christians more than 60 years ago ever anticipate Jesus' return in their time? Why would the Millerites (forerunners of the Seventh Day Adventists) even think about giving away all their earthly possessions and waiting in a field for a returning Jesus almost 200 years ago? Why would Christians in, say, in 629 C.E be "looking up" for a returning Jesus when at the time the Jews had no homeland?
Regards,
DeGuire
Yes, Jesus could have returned already but God's long-suffering for the lost has not allowed it. Many folks who've come to know the Lord in the past 100 years or so are greatly appreciative too, I assure you.
Also, I find you use of the term 'Christian giddiness' over the Israel/Palestinian conflict offensive, misrepresentative and an outright lie.
ETA: Forget that last sentence, DeGuire, my apologies to you.
Yes, Jesus could have returned already but God's long-suffering for the lost has not allowed it. Many folks who've come to know the Lord in the past 100 years or so are greatly appreciative too, I assure you.
Also, I find you use of the term 'Christian giddiness' over the Israel/Palestinian conflict offensive, misrepresentative and an outright lie.
ETA: Forget that last sentence, DeGuire, my apologies to you.
I guess you took a look next door and realize it is not? I just decided to hold my fingers in that thread than risk upsetting a few folks because if I was a Palestinian or even an outraged Israeli, Christian or Muslim, I would find that kind of rejoicing offensive.
I guess you took a look next door and realize it is not? I just decided to hold my fingers in that thread than risk upsetting a few folks because if I was a Palestinian or even an outraged Israeli, Christian or Muslim, I would find that kind of rejoicing offensive.
Regards,
DeGuire
Can't do anything but agree with ya on those points.
Started to delete my post in this thread altogether but in the outside chance someone had already read it, I wanted to publicly apologize.
150, 315, 1100 years ago? Over in the Christian forum is a thread that sparked my other thread about Christian giddiness over Israel and the drama going on over there. SOME Christians have stated that Israel's statehood in 1948 represented the start of the latter phase of biblical prophesy and has not accelerated the end times into high gear. As a result, Jesus could be cracking the skies at any moment and magically levitating folks off the earth like a Star Trek episode.
So what I want to know is this. If it was going to take Israel's statehood as a precursor to Jesus returning, why the heck would Christians more than 60 years ago ever anticipate Jesus' return in their time? Why would the Millerites (forerunners of the Seventh Day Adventists) even think about giving away all their earthly possessions and waiting in a field for a returning Jesus almost 200 years ago? Why would Christians in, say, in 629 C.E be "looking up" for a returning Jesus when at the time the Jews had no homeland?
Regards,
DeGuire
No, the fig tree (Israel) wasn't planted yet; that happened in 1948.
(Mark 13:28) Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:"
Read all of Matthew 24.
(Matthew 24:34) "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
So then, what would have/should have stopped people from simply ignoring the call? A great part of the appeal or fear (depends on how you want to see it) of the Christian message is the idea that Jesus is coming soon; any day now in fact. Well he was coming "any day now" for the past 2,000 years but could not actually come back BEFORE 1948 so what exactly were those early Christians looking out for?
Apparently Jesus could not have come back before 1948 then?
150, 315, 1100 years ago? Over in the Christian forum is a thread that sparked my other thread about Christian giddiness over Israel and the drama going on over there. SOME Christians have stated that Israel's statehood in 1948 represented the start of the latter phase of biblical prophesy and has not accelerated the end times into high gear. As a result, Jesus could be cracking the skies at any moment and magically levitating folks off the earth like a Star Trek episode.
So what I want to know is this. If it was going to take Israel's statehood as a precursor to Jesus returning, why the heck would Christians more than 60 years ago ever anticipate Jesus' return in their time? Why would the Millerites (forerunners of the Seventh Day Adventists) even think about giving away all their earthly possessions and waiting in a field for a returning Jesus almost 200 years ago? Why would Christians in, say, in 629 C.E be "looking up" for a returning Jesus when at the time the Jews had no homeland?
Regards,
DeGuire
Many Christians like many non Christians are not aware of the details of the prophecies of Christ return. As a result, they simply believe things that are not based on Scripture. Seventh Day Adventists are more into their founders visions, then the Bible. As a result, much of what they believe has little to do with Scripture. However, there are writings from Christians who lived in the 1600s, and those Christians stated that before Christ could return to earth. The Jewish people would first have to return to the land of Israel, and they would have to retake Jerusalem. And they stated that in the end, many armies of the world would try to take back Israel, and Jerusalem by force.
These were Christians who actually studied the prophecies, and that is why they knew about the future of Israel. Unless you read the prophecies of the Bible, you will know little about the future, and that is why the Seventh Day Adventists were wrong.
(Matthew 24:34) "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Using this in context with my comments
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When its branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near.
All it says summer is near when a fig tree puts forth leaves. BTW you do know that fruit of the fig tree comes before the leaves? Look it up you may find something else there. One of the reasons for Jesus cursing the fig tree.
Mat 24:33 So you, likewise, when you see all these things, shall know that it is near, at the doors.
These things means what He spoke of earlier.
Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled.
God of the gaps. This generation was at the time Jesus was talking no? Or would it not be logical to say "A generation"
Mat 24:35 The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.
Precisely
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.
If Jesus does not know, thee angels do not know, only the Father in heaven then how are you folk so adamant it is now?
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark.
Mat 24:39 And they did not know until the flood came and took them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
They were eating and drinking, marrying etc. how does one take that to mean they were living in fornication lewd lives? It does not say that does it? No.
All that it implies it will be unexpected and folk will be going around doing their day to day stuff like eating (need that to survive) drinking (water necessary for survival)
This was obviously a known tale He used as an illustration. By the tale, they knew that everyone was wiped out. No need to go back to the OT to look for a boogey man. The point of the parallel is the unexpectedness/ unknown.
Mat 24:40 Then two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
I will digress here a tad. Were this literal of a snatching away in a rapture (being taken) then we must assume that 50% of the world is going to be raptured. Oops there are only 2Bn odd Christians and of course the non evangelicals are not the real deal(tm) thus the number may be a low as a few hundred million so thus that verse does not mean one taken one left as in the rapture now does it?
Mat 24:42 Therefore watch; for you do not know what hour your Lord comes.
Here is the key verse. And how does he come to every single one on the planet?
DEATH.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the steward of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be dug through.
Mat 24:44 Therefore you also be ready, for in that hour you think not, the Son of Man comes.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord has made ruler over His household, to give them food in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant whom his Lord shall find him doing so when He comes.
Mat 24:47 Truly I say to you that He shall make him ruler over all His goods.
Mat 24:48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delays His coming,
Mat 24:49 and shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
A moral lesson of remaining diligent and essentially a person of upstanding morals and of course helping ones fellow man et al (short version)
Mat 24:50 the Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not look for Him, and in an hour which he does not know.
Here is the key verse. And how does he come to every single one on the planet?
DEATH.
Mat 24:51 And He shall cut him apart and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Notice here where he goes and to whom he is cast out to
Hypocrites.
Hmm what is a hypocrite? Let me see. Someone that claims to be what they do not profess to be or IOW talks the talk but don't walk the walk.
So who was Jesus actually talking to here? Unbelievers? I do not think so.
An unbeliever is pretty resolute in their unbelief and may not claim to be anything special. OTOH, the believers do seem to have this issue of hypocrisy.
Back up a chapter and who was Jesus talking to? The religious.
Death is the only thing we have in common here and we shall go that way because:
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
Remember, if we take this scrip in context to represent perpetual present, which is what I do, then it is much like the other parables and most of Matthews parables was speaking to the established religion of the day, not unbelievers. Jesus knew the folk were in bondage to a man made system and He was using what they knew to coax them out of it.
Now whether you believe in the Trinity or not, When Jesus said I am the way, He was talking of His teachings and admonitions and not the religious sect of the day.
Other texts in the NT say salvation is by Grace lest any man boasts and others that say our righteousness are as filthy rags (read: menstrual cloths (used))
Take a step back, look at who and what you are and realise what the Atheist sees that you do not see. He/she sees the exact thing that Jesus spoke and taught against.
The church today is no better than the system of Jesus' day and hence He says come out of her in Revelation.
John 3:17 clearly show the missions statement of Jesus yet the church has made "getting saved" something we need to do or IOW, it makes the salvation of Jesus dependent on what we may or may not do - hence man is more powerful than God until we die of course that kinda makes the whole object of His creation one of a gamble seeing not everyone currently is Christian, you still need to convert another 4Bn folk.
Until the word is preached/published to all nations and the way that is spun, OK we have a bible in your native language hence you are w/o excuse, never mind if you cannot read or write, the book is there (for sale of course - we do have expenses you know, never mind the freely received and freely give bits...), don't blame us. Hmm does that sound like Jesus? To me that sound like the other dude, the red one.
See Jesus did not sanction the mass publication of bibles did He? No, otherwise everyone post 33AD would have had one and of course all folk would have been literate. Did not work out that way considering the dark ages.
So I urge you, think of what you simply cut and paste as talking points/proof texts. Folk are able to read and think too.
Blessings
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I just decided to hold my fingers in that thread than risk upsetting a few folks because if I was a Palestinian or even an outraged Israeli, Christian or Muslim, I would find that kind of rejoicing offensive. 
