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John 14:8,9 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enought for us."
9. Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'?
well cambell
just be patient with me , and fell free to object if you find my reasoning biased or not logic
if someone said to any prophet : " Lord, show us the Father and that will be enought for us."
what is that mean ?
i guess that it means that thomas have doupts about jesus (pbuh) to be sent by God , so that he asked jesus to show him the God (which means that jesus never said to them that he is God , beside he said to him show us the father , not show us your father , he gnearalized it because it means the father of all in sense of God )
anyway this was the answer of jesus (pbuh)
"Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? jesus want to say to him in other words : " are you have doubts about me ? , even after this long time so that you asking more proofs !!!
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'
this is the big problem , you take these words literally to mean that jesus is the father .
if you are in the right position , tell me [SIZE=3]then why in John 5:37 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?[/SIZE]
actually there are verses in quran for example said : " who has obeyed the prophet , has obeyed allah"
is it mean that mohammed (pbuh) is allah ( glory be to him) ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well cambell
just be patient with me , and fell free to object if you find my reasoning biased or not logic
if someone said to any prophet : " Lord, show us the Father and that will be enought for us."
what is that mean ?
i guess that it means that thomas have doupts about jesus (pbuh) to be sent by God , so that he asked jesus to show him the God (which means that jesus never said to them that he is God , beside he said to him show us the father , not show us your father , he gnearalized it because it means the father of all in sense of God )
anyway this was the answer of jesus (pbuh)
"Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? jesus want to say to him in other words : " are you have doubts about me ? , even after this long time so that you asking more proofs !!!
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'
this is the big problem , you take these words literally to mean that jesus is the father .
if you are in the right position , tell me [SIZE=3]then why in John 5:37 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?[/SIZE]
actually there are verses in quran for example said : " who has obeyed the prophet , has obeyed allah"
is it mean that mohammed (pbuh) is allah ( glory be to him) ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas never ask Jesus to show him the (GOD). Thomas asked Jesus to show him the (FATHER). And John 5:37 does not say they have never seen (GOD) at anytime. It states they never saw the (FATHER) at anytime.
The God of the Bible is made up of three persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are different personalities. Yet it requires all three to = One God. It is not easy to understand, not even for us Christians. Yet it is a concept that is supported by the Scriptures, even if we don't really understand it ourselves.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost: and these three (are one).
God being three, yet one. And the three have different personalities, and different funtions. Yet One being. Thats why God can speak to Himself, because He is speaking to the different personalities that make up the
Godhead.
Let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
I personally do not fully understand the Trinity, I just accept it. Because it is clearly stated. Without a doubt, it is a great mystery. As I have said before, the Godhead is like the Atom. You have three elements, electron, neutron, and proton. Each have a different funtions, each is different, yet together, they = one Atom. The Atom is the basic building block of the universe, and it appears the God of the Bible created the Atom after His own design.
Thomas never ask Jesus to show him the (GOD). Thomas asked Jesus to show him the (FATHER). And John 5:37 does not say they have never seen (GOD) at anytime. It states they never saw the (FATHER) at anytime.
The God of the Bible is made up of three persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are different personalities. Yet it requires all three to = One God. It is not easy to understand, not even for us Christians. Yet it is a concept that is supported by the Scriptures, even if we don't really understand it ourselves.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost: and these three (are one).
God being three, yet one. And the three have different personalities, and different funtions. Yet One being. Thats why God can speak to Himself, because He is speaking to the different personalities that make up the
Godhead.
Let (US) make man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness.
I personally do not fully understand the Trinity, I just accept it. Because it is clearly stated. Without a doubt, it is a great mystery. As I have said before, the Godhead is like the Atom. You have three elements, electron, neutron, and proton. Each have a different funtions, each is different, yet together, they = one Atom. The Atom is the basic building block of the universe, and it appears the God of the Bible created the Atom after His own design.
well , drop the trinity concept for a moment and tell me
if this verse meant to you that jesus is the father John 14- 9. Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'?
did they saw the father or not ? is the jesus (son ) the father or not
your understnding for the first verse make plain contradictions , at leat my understanding not make this contradiction
well , drop the trinity concept for a moment and tell me
if this verse meant to you that jesus is the father John 14- 9. Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'?
did they saw the father or not ? is the jesus (son ) the father or not
your understnding for the first verse make plain contradictions , at leat my understanding not make this contradiction
Jesus is not the Father, yet He is the representation of his being. He is the radiance of the Fathers Glory. They are seperate, yet they are the same God. (The Father created all things alone and by himself), yet (Jesus created all things) as well. The only way this could be possible, is if they were both the same God. Jesus was saying if you have seen me you have seen the Father. They saw a representation of the Father in Jesus. John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name-the name you gave me-so that they may be one as (WE ARE ONE).
Jesus is not the Father, yet He is the representation of his being. He is the radiance of the Fathers Glory. They are seperate, yet they are the same God. (The Father created all things alone and by himself), yet (Jesus created all things) as well. The only way this could be possible, is if they were both the same God. Jesus was saying if you have seen me you have seen the Father. They saw a representation of the Father in Jesus. John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name-the name you gave me-so that they may be one as (WE ARE ONE).
They are equal, Jesus said that Him and The Father are one. Satan had to leave Jesus because Jesus had authority over him. We have the authority that Jesus has given us to finish his work, so when we drive out demons in Jesus name, what is it about Jesus, bc He is God. I clearly gave scriptures that prove that he is God, but you failed to even say anything about them. The proof is there, it is up to you to accept it. But even if you don't, Jesus is still God.
Matthew 1:23, John 1:4, Col. 1:16-17, Rev. 1:17, John 8:24, John 13:19, Exodus 3:14 , again here are the scriptures that prove that Jesus is God, if you choose to not accept, then you are calling Jesus a lier on what he said. He said that he was God, and if you read these scriptures then it plainly says it.
So, the way that I see it, really you don't have a problem with people believing that Jesus is God, you and others have a problem with God, and what he said. So, the way that I see it, take it up with him, and call God a lier, and see how far you get with that. Jesus calls himself God, if you don't believe it, so be it, that is your problem. The proof is there but you just dont want to except it. So, read through the scriptures.
So, how can Christ have create things in heaven and on earth without being God? Colossians 1:15-17
How could Christ use the same name I am, as the God of the Old Testament? JOhn 13:19
HOw is it when Christ was born, he was given the name Immanuel? ( God with us)Matthew 1:23
We are not saying that Jesus is equal, Jesus is saying that he is equal, and we are agreeing, because we see the evidence in scripture. So, you have a problem with Christ, not us, we did not make it up, like I said Jesus says who he is.
God spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he spoke with Moses. So, how could Jesus have spoken with Moses in the Old Testament. Wow how is that, bc that was The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that was speaken to Moses. ( Gen 1:26 Then God said Let (us) make man in (our) image, in (our) likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the bird of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So, who is the us, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
If you would take the time to read the bible and put the puzzle together, then it would make since. Like I said who is the us, who is the us, who is the us, who is the us. Can you answer that. If you answer that then you will see Jesus for who he is.
Also in Abrahams time, he was having an encounter with God in the New Testament. In John 8:59 I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born I am, at this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them and so passed by.
-They wanted to stone him because he was telling them that he was God
-He was saying that he was the I am before Abraham was born
So, if you don't believe you are just over looking and calling Jesus, God a lier.
Well, me personally I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, people just don't want to read scripture, they try to go around it, because they can't disprove. These are other names of Jesus
Adam, the Last (1 Cor. 15:45)Advocate (1 Jn. 2:1)All & in All (Col. 3:11)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8)Altogether Lovely One (Song of Sol. 5:16)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Anchor (Heb. 6:19)
Ancient of Days (Dan. 7:9-11 with Rev. 1:13-16)
Angel [of the Lord] (Gen. 16:9-14; Gen. 48:16)
Anointed, His (Ps. 2:2). See also Messiah.
Apostle (Heb. 3:1)
Arm of the Lord (Isa. 53:1)
Alpha & Omega (Rev. 1:8; 21:6)
Author (Heb. 12:2)
Balm of Gilead (Jer. 8:22)
Beginning (Col. 1:18)
Begotten (One and Only – John 3:16)
Beloved (Eph. 1:6)
Bishop of your souls (1 Pet. 2:25)
Blessed and only Potentate (1 Tim. 6:15)
Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; Rev. 11:1)
Bread (John 6:32-33; 6:35)
Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15; Jn. 3:29; Rev. 21:9)
Bright & Morning Star, see Star.
Brightness of His (God's) glory (Heb. 1:3)
Captain of their salvation (Heb. 2:12; Josh. 5:4)
Carpenter['s son] (Mt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3)
Chief[est among ten thousand] Song of Sol. 5:10)
Child, [the young] (Isa. 9:6; Mt. 2:8-21)
Chosen of God (Lk. 23:35)
Christ (Mt. 1:17; Mk. 8:29; Jn. 1:41; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:23)
Comforter (Isa. 61:2; Jn. 14:16)
Commander (Isa. 55:4)
Consolation of Israel (Lk. 2:25)
Corn of Wheat (Jn. 12:24)
Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20; see also Isa. 28:16)
Counsellor (Isa. 9:6; Isa. 40:13)
Covert (Isa. 32:2)
Creator of all things (Col. 1:16)
Daysman (Job 9:33)
Dayspring from on high (Lk. 1:78)
Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19). See also Bright & Morning Star.
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Desire of all nations (Hag. 2:7)
Door [of the sheepfold] (Jn. 10:7, 9)
Immanuel (Mt. 1:23; see also Isa. 7:14; 8:8)
End, see Beginning & the End. End of the Law (Rom 10:4)
Express image of His (God's) person (Heb. 1:3)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5; 3:14; 19:11)
Faithful & True (Rev. 19:11)
Father of Eternity (Isa. 9:6)
Fellow of God (Zech. 13:7)
First & the Last (Rev. 1:17)
First begotten of the dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn Firstfruits [of them that slept] (1 Cor. 15:20, 23)
Foundation (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 3:11)
Fountain (Jer. 2:13; Zech. 13:1)
Forerunner (Heb. 6:20)
Friend of sinners (Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:34)
Fulness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9)
Gift of God (Jn. 4:10; 2 Cor. 9:15)
Glory of God (Isa. 60:1)
God (Jn. 1:1; Mt. 1:23; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:8)
Good Master (Mt. 19:16)
Governor (Mt. 2:6)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Guide (Ps. 48:14)
Head (even Christ) (Eph. 4:15)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
Helper (Heb. 13:6)
Hiding Place (Isa. 32:2)
High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 7:1)
Holy Child (Acts 4:30)
Holy One [& the Just] (Acts 2:27; 3:14)
Hope of Israel (Jer. 17:3)
Horn of salvation (Ps. 18:2; Lk. 1:69)
I AM (Jn. 8:24, 58)
Image of [the invisible] God (2 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:15)
Intercessor (Heb. 7:25)
Jehovah (Isa. 26:4; 40:3)
Jesus (Mt. 1:21)
Judge (Micah 5:1; Acts 10:42)
Just One (Acts 7:52)
King (Zech. 14:16)
Kinsman (Ruth 2:14)
Lamb [of God] (Jn. 1:29, 36; 1 Pet 1:19; Rev. 5:6, 12; 7:17)
Last, see First. (Rev. 22:13)
Lawgiver (Isa. 33:22)
Life (1 Jn. 1:2)
Light (Jn. 12:35)
Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Lord [& Saviour] (1 Cor. 12:3; 2 Pet. 1:11), see also Master.
Man (Jn. 19:5; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5). See also Son of Man.
Master (Mt. 8:19)
Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
Merciful High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Mercy Seat (Rom. 3:24-25)
Messiah (Dan. 9:25; Jn. 1:41; 4:25)
Mighty God (Isa. 9:6; 63:1)
Minister of the Sanctuary (Heb. 8:2)
Nazarene (Mk. 1:24)
Nobleman (Lk. 19:12)
Offering (Eph. 5:2; Heb. 10:10)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16). See also Root.
Ointment poured forth (Song of Sol. 1:3)
Omega. See Alpha & Omega.
One and Only Son, see Son. (John 3:16)
Passover (1 Cor. 5:7)
Peace, our (Eph. 2:14)
Physician (Mt. 9:12; Lk. 4:23)
Plant of Renown (Ezek. 34:29)
Potentate, Blessed and only, see Blessed Prince [& a Saviour] (Acts 3:15; 5:31)
Prophet (Acts 3:22-23)
Propitiation (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Quickening (life-giving) Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)
Rabbi (Jn. 3:2; Mt. 26:25; Jn. 20:16)
Ransom (1 Tim. 2:6)
Redeemer, Redemption (Isa. 59:20; 60:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)
Refuge (Isa. 25:4)
Resurrection & the Life (Jn. 11:25)
Righteousness (Jer. 23:6; 33:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)
Rock [of offence] (Deut. 32:15; 1 Cor. 10:4; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:8)
Rod (Isa. 11:1)
Root (Rev. 22:16)
Rose of Sharon (Song of Sol. 2:1)
Sacrifice (Eph. 5:2)
Same, the (Heb. 1:12)
Sanctification (1 Cor. 1:30)
Saviour [of the world] (Lk. 1:47; 2:11; 1 Jn. 4:14)
Second Man, see Man.
Seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16, 19)
Seed Servant (Isa. 42:1; 49:5-7; Mt. 12:18)
Shadow of a great Rock (Isa. 32:2)
Shepherd ( 1 Peter 5:4)
Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)
Son (Isa. 9:6; 1 Jn. 4:14)
Sower (Mt. 13:37)
Star (Num. 24:17)
Stone (Psalm 118:22)
Sun of Righteousness (Mal. 4:2)
Surety (Heb. 7:22)
Teacher (Mt. 26:18; Jn. 3:2; 11:28). See also Master.
Tender Plant (Isa. 53:2)
Testator (Heb. 9:15-17)
True Bread, see Bread.
Truth (Jn. 14:6)
Vine (Jn. 15:1, 5)
Way (Jn. 14:6)
Wisdom [of God] (1 Cor. 1:24, 30)
Wonderful (Isa. 9:6)
Word (Jn. 1:1)
Now, the only name that people have a problem with is God, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End, I am, when people read the other names they dont have a problem, why is that. They except it, so when you read that he is clearly saying that he is God, why have a problem when the scriptures say that he is God?
The only scripture that people want to cling to is the Son of God, and yes he is, and he also says that he is the I am. God created the universe, and I'm sure if he can do that, then surely he can he a father and a son
I read a few of them and they refute nothing. Just more garbage from the anti-Torah people. They will perish with all the rest at the end of days.
Just like I said, you only read a few, which proves again that people are not willing to read through scripture to find the truth. The truth is there plan and simple, but you refuse to believe. It must be hard to really try to hang onto a lie. If you want to really know the truth, then read through my entire thread, if not you show little to no evidence of knowing what you are talking about. I even made it easy for you, and I went and pulled it out for you, since it seems that you are having a hard time comprehending what Jesus is saying. If you don't know the bible then you don't know what you are talking about. That is so funny to me, when people try to debate who Jesus is, and they can't even comprehend scripture and want even take the time to go through the bible to try to prove someone wrong. Sad so sad. Keep your day Job.
Oh, yea I read what you provided. I say once again keep your day job.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 01-31-2009 at 08:23 PM..
Just like I said, you only read a few, which proves again that people are not willing to read through scripture to find the truth. The truth is there plan and simple, but you refuse to believe. It must be hard to really try to hang onto a lie. If you want to really know the truth, then read through my entire thread, if not you show little to no evidence of knowing what you are talking about. I even made it easy for you, and I went and pulled it out for you, since it seems that you are having a hard time comprehending what Jesus is saying. If you don't know the bible then you don't know what you are talking about. That is so funny to me, when people try to debate who Jesus is, and they can't even comprehend scripture and want even take the time to go through the bible to try to prove someone wrong. Sad so sad. Keep your day Job.
Oh, yea I read what you provided. I say once again keep your day job.
Shawn....you are a dork. I am on your side! I was saying that the site that shibainu posted "Messianic Prophecies Refuted" was a bunch of bull.
This statement......
Introduction: Understanding of the definition of messianic prophecy when dealing with Christians
should give you an idea of what kind of site this is.
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Good explanation.
Keep your day Job.
