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Old 11-18-2011, 12:04 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,419,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
True tolerance is that I'm willing to accept you being wrong. It's not pretending that we can all be right and still disagree.

You are not tolerant at all, but in fact very arrogant.

But that is ok because I know what I believe and I don't really care what you think about it.

It is really difficult for Christians to understand that not all folks see them as being true or right.

I know it is hard accept that there are different ways to G-d.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:06 PM
 
949 posts, read 389,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
You are not tolerant at all, but in fact very arrogant.

But that is ok because I know what I believe and I don't really care what you think about it.

It is really difficult for Christians to understand that not all folks see them as being true or right.

I know it is hard accept that there are different ways to G-d.
lol....you don't think it's at all arrogant to tell me that I'm arrogant for suggesting something different than you believe? That doesn't strike you as the slightest bit odd?
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
There are different covenants with G-d. Different ways.
According to Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, otherwise known by the acronym Rambam, 1135-1204 C.E.), "The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses and there will be no other Torah (Source: Rambam's thirteen principles of faith).
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGeek View Post
lol....you don't think it's at all arrogant to tell me that I'm arrogant for suggesting something different than you believe? That doesn't strike you as the slightest bit odd?

Its being honest.....

You are arrogant to suggest that what you believe is the truth and all others are wrong.

I on the other hand have said no such thing..

I just have what I believe and it is right for me...
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:50 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,419,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
According to Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, otherwise known by the acronym Rambam, 1135-1204 C.E.), "The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses and there will be no other Torah (Source: Rambam's thirteen principles of faith).
Yes Walter and this covenant is the Jewish covenant but you don't have to be Jewish to have a relationship with G-d.

I never said there would be another Torah......
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
I never said there would be another Torah......
But you said, "Different covenants, different ways to G-d.... "

One Torah = one Convenant.

No other Torah, no other Convenant.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
But you said, "Different covenants, different ways to G-d.... "

One Torah = one Convenant.

No other Torah, no other Convenant.

Walter there is a Jewish covenant. Maybe I used an incorrect word but G-d and others have relationships. There is the Noahide covenant and you don't need to be Jewish to have a relationship with G-d. We don't proselytize to gain members and one of the reasons is we don't believe you need to be Jewish to have a place in the world to come.

http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come.

Last edited by Jazzymom; 11-18-2011 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:58 PM
Status: "Just fired my former cat. He is on the giveaway list" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Marion, North Dakota
9,846 posts, read 3,615,943 times
Reputation: 3942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
According to Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, otherwise known by the acronym Rambam, 1135-1204 C.E.), "The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses and there will be no other Torah (Source: Rambam's thirteen principles of faith).
Just saying I agree.

I also wish to add for the benefit of those who disagree:

Never argue about the translation of something with a person who knows the language it was written in, especially any of the Semitic languages. any translation at best is only an approximation and carries with it the bias of the translator.

If you ever want to know what the Torah says. ask a Jew. You will only get a biased opinion from any other source.

Arabic and Hebrew are about as close as 2 languages can be and still be separate languages. Even with that level of closeness neither will translate accurately to the other.

For Clarity I disagree with Judaism, but I am in favor of honesty and the only way you will ever get an honest answer about what the Torah actually says, is to ask a Jew. If you are going to disagree with somebody, disagree about what they actually believe, not what you think they believe.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:04 PM
 
479 posts, read 366,487 times
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I haven't read the entire thread. But I hope that someone pointed out; the Jews were expecting a "Messiah" that would deliver them from the Roman occupation. The Romans spent a reasonable amount of time figuring out who the next Messiah would be. Kind of like our own CIA, entertains itself by trying to figure out and wipe out the leadership of Al Quaida.

Initially, early Christians were allowed to use the Synagouge. Later they were booted. I can't remember why...it's been several years since I took Biblical History.

Jesus didn't get promoted to divinity, until much later in the story.

The notion that a Creator would have a "Chosen People" seems kind of absurd. But that's what they say.
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegota View Post
But I hope that someone pointed out; the Jews were expecting a "Messiah" that would deliver them from the Roman occupation.
Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah


Quote:
Originally Posted by tegota View Post
Initially, early Christians were allowed to use the Synagouge. Later they were booted. I can't remember why...it's been several years since I took Biblical History.
Early Christians were all Jews or Gentiles who converted to Judaism and as Jews would be allowed use of a synagogue.

Later Christians were Gentiles who became Christians without first converting to Judaism, and they would not be allowed in a synagogue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tegota View Post
Jesus didn't get promoted to divinity, until much later in the story.
Promoted pr false claim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tegota View Post
The notion that a Creator would have a "Chosen People" seems kind of absurd. But that's what they say.
From Judaism 101: Jewish Attitudes Toward Non-Jews
Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews.
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