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The reason that Christians do not keep kosher has nothing to do with any claim about what Jesus of Nazareth may have said. Christians do not keep kosher because they are only bound by the 7 Noahic Commandments, which existed long before Jesus of Nazareth.
Paul decided that having Gentiles first become Jewish before they became Christian was too slow a process, and changed the rules, so to speak, and allowed Gentiles to become Christians without first becoming Jewish in the mistaken belief that quantity would hasten the second coming, knowing full well that under Jewish Law, these Gentile Christians were not required to keep kosher.
Walter, the Christians I know do not follow the Noahide commandments. As Jews I think it is important not to tell Christians what they are bound by. We do not like it when they tell us what we are supposed to do.
Most Christians have no idea what the Noahide commandments are or even that there are expectations that they ought to follow them.
Please excuse my odd thinking. But what you are describing is a Judaic movement taking place in Christianity. "Judaic Christians" I can hear the back ground already Screaming they are not Christians.
Please excuse my odd thinking. But what you are describing is a Judaic movement taking place in Christianity. "Judaic Christians" I can hear the back ground already Screaming they are not Christians.
No, not a Judaic movement taking place in Christianity, but Gentiles who voluntarily chose to abandon Christianity and chose to obey the 7 Noahide Commandments but do not convert to Judaism.
Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws.
No, not a Judaic movement taking place in Christianity, but Gentiles who voluntarily chose to abandon Christianity and chose to obey the 7 Noahide Commandments but do not convert to Judaism.
Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws.
I see
I was thinking of some of the denominations that are adopting Judaic customs, but still calling themselves Christians.
I was thinking of some of the denominations that are adopting Judaic customs, but still calling themselves Christians.
From what I understand, doing so is not considered a sin.
But, without realizing exactly what they are doing, some Messianic Christians, as one of the Judaic practices that they have adopred, recite the Shema in Hebrew, which is the Jewish affirmation of faith, chanted at least twice each day: upon going to sleep and upon rising, as well as immediately prior to death, if possible, and is a denial of the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.
From what I understand, doing so is not considered a sin.
But, without realizing exactly what they are doing, some Messianic Christians, as one of the Judaic practices that they have adopred, recite the Shema in Hebrew, which is the Jewish affirmation of faith, chanted at least twice each day: upon going to sleep and upon rising, as well as immediately prior to death, if possible, and is a denial of the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.
Interesting again. I had never really thought about the words in the Shema. I've heard it but could only pick out the words that had a resemblance to Arabic.
My intent was to show a person can not follow both Christianity and Judaism. It is ridiculous to follow one, and try to live by the practices of the other.
It is an idiotic concept. To carry it to extreme will we next have Messianic Muslim-Jews worshiping Jesus(as) in a Mosque while reading the Torah? Who on earth would get to be the RabbiImamPriest? A man can not follow two religions without disobeying both.
A Muslim is not a Jew nor a Christian
A Jew is not a Muslim nor a Christian
A Christian is not a Muslim nor a Jew.
Jew is not a religion , Judaism is a religion " Abraham and Sarah are the Father and Mother of every natural born JEW which some don't even beleive in the G-d of Israel or the GOD of Christianity they are secular JEWS and there's nothing that you can do about that.
They are not Jews anymore. They will not be seen as Jewish unless they return to the Jewish people. Teshuva to return. To renounce another religion and return to the Jewish people.
That is the only way they will ever be seen as Jews by the Jewish people.
It does not matter what non Jews think.
It does not matter what JEWS Think about JEWS who leave Judaism.
They have committed apostasy and turned their backs on their religion and people and are no more then Christians.
According to your religion of JUDAISM they are cast out of the JEWISH TEMPLE FELLOWSHIP and not the JEWISH PEOPLE.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-18-2011 at 10:07 AM..
Reason: Do not change anyone's post
Lucy, when Jews think of Jesus, i think they think more of the followers of the religion Paul created,
The ex-rabbi and Apostle Paul wasn't even one of the 12 Foundational Apostle of the Christian Faith or so call religion ( he was outside of the 12 Apostles ) and every JEW knows that the number 12 is the JEWISH Number For GOVERNMENT and you say that this was Paul Religion.
which includes a 2,000 year history of murdering Jews.
Paul himself said that he was the chief OF SINNERS because he MURDERED JEWISH CONVERTS TO CHRISTIANITY himself.
Jesus himself, had a murderous personality.
Not So JESUS Raised People From The DEAD , and that's not A Murderous Personality To Me At The Very Least.
Sorry, I know the segment below is crazy long, but if anybody has the time, I can back up my thoughts above with this:
Quote:
MOD are not allowing people to reponse to you , i guess because your Post was too long.
Chrstians like to present us with an idealized picture of Jsus the man, but a careful reading of the Gospels dispels this picture very quickly.
Let us look at a few examples.
One of the best known teachings of Jsus is
Quote:
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(Luke 6:29), If someone smites you on one cheek, turn the other cheek.
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Do you not think that JESUS who could raise some one from the Dead also could not destroy those that attacked him.
This might have been a beautiful ideal, but Jsus himself did not live up to it. When one of the High Priest's officers struck him, Jsus did not turn the other cheek at all. Instead, the Gospel tells us that his response was
(John 13:23), if I spoke amiss, state it in evidence at my trial. If I spoke well, then why did you smite me?
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They that were supposed to administrator Justice Smite a man without any basic in JEWISH JUSTICE.
He did not meekly and quietly submit, as he himself is alleged to have preached.
When the Jewish Temple Guards asked JESUS if he was JESUS he said I AM and they all fell down , yet He Submitted TO THEM.
Throughout history, it seems that the only one who ever turned the other cheek was the Jew.
YES JESUS was a JEW.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jsus instructed his followers
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Matthew 5:43) Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who hate you.
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Rabbis followed JESUS in secret and some even openly , he accepted everybody that came to him and repented.
This might have been a fine lesson if Jsus himself lived up to it. But when it came to his own enemies, Jsus declared
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Luke 19:27), Take my enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill them before me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO
Jsus might have preached against vindictiveness, but he did not practice as he preached, when he said
NO
Quote:
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(John 11:39), I come to the world for judgment. I may give sight to the sightless, but I will blind those who see.
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This is the resurrection Of LAZARUS one of his dearest Friend.
Some of us may have a picture of Jsus preaching love and peace, as when he said
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Matthew 5:22), Anyone who nurses anger against his brother must be brought to judgment. . . If he even sneers at him, he will have to answer for it in the fires of hell. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because all violent sin start at that point.
The picture, however, changes very rapidly when Jsus himself is put to the test. We then find him declaring
(Matthew 10:34), Think not that I have come to send peace to the world. I come not to send peace, but the sword. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JESUS Spoke in PARABLES a sword is disagreement among all of the world peoples.
Jsus subjected anyone who dared oppose him to the most awful abuse, curses and threats of dire punishment. When the Jews tried to defend their ancient faith, Jsus answered them by saying,
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Matthew 23:33), You snakes, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell?
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THE HIGH PRIEST AND SOME OF THE RULING RABBIS planned to MURDER JESUS and on the other hand SOME SECRETLY FOLLOWED HIM.
Jsus did not limit himself to his immediate opponents, such as the Rabbis and teachers. He spoke against all those who dared not believe in him, branding them as outcasts, subject to divine punishment. We thus hear his pronouncement
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (John 3:36), He who believes in the Son has everlasting life. But he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life, but shall suffer the everlasting wrath of G-d. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES
He may have preached love, but it was a very restricted love. He thus said
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (John 3:5), I surely say to you: Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of G-d. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water and The Holy Spirit IS GOD
In contrast to this, the Rabbis, whom Jsus hated so much, did not place any such limitations on G-d's love. It was the Rabbis of the Talmud who made the statement
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Tosefta, Sanhedrin 13), The righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRUE
They saw G-d's love as available to all people, and not only to Jews.
JESUS didn't
An even stronger statement can be found in our Midrashic literature, where a rabbi declares
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Tana DeBei Eliahu Rabbah 9), I call heaven and earth as witnesses: Any individual, whether gentile or Jew, man or woman, servant or maid, can bring the Divine Presence upon himself in accordance with his deeds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JESUS didn't
The Jewish attitude toward non-Jews is most clearly expressed in King Solomon's prayer, where he says
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (I Kings 8:41-43), When a stranger, who is not of Your people Israel, but comes from a distant land . . . turns in prayer toward this Temple, then listen to his prayers.
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JESUS Stopped The RABBIS from STONING To Death A Woman Caught IN ADULTERY. JESUS listen to the prayers of anyone repenting.
Jsus, however, was not so broad minded. When he sent out his twelve disciples, he charged them
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Matthew 10:5, 6), Do not take the road to gentile lands, and do not enter any Samaritan city. Go only to the lost sheep of Israel. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The JEWS accepted GOD the GENTILES DIDN'T
The Rabbis who lived in Jsus' time taught
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Avos 4:3), Do not despise any man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Baba Kama 38a), Even a gentile who studies Torah is equal to a High Priest.
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These Rabbis saw G-d's salvation freely available to all men. Contrast this with the terrible sentence proclaimed by Jsus
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (John 15:6), He who does nWhen did JESUS speak Highly About The CATHOLIC CHURCHot abide in me is thrown away like a withered branch. Such withered branches are gathered together, cast into the fire and burned. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JESUS said he was the only SALVATION for mankind.
This terrible statement was later used by the Catholic Church to justify their practice of burning non-believers at the stake.
When did JESUS speak highly about the CATHOLIC CHURCH.
(Matthew 5:43:44), You have been previously taught to love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you: Love your enemies and bless those who curse you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jsus may have said this, but the Gospels are aflame with his own words of hatred toward those who did not accept him. Time after time, he displays the same appetite for revenge as any other mortal.
JESUS is LOVE and gave his LIFE for every person that every lived.
One of the basic teachings of Judaism is
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Leviticus 18:19), You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This commandment is so important that Rabbi Akiva declared that it was the fundamental principle of the Torah. Even though this is openly stated in the Torah, written over a thousand years before Jsus' birth, many people still think of it as one of Jsus' teachings.
JESUS taught the Torah.
But even in explaining this commandment of love, Jsus was not above displaying his vindictiveness. The Gospel (Luke 19:29), records that he was asked, But who is my neighbor? Jsus replied with one of the best known parables in the Gospels:
A man traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho is attacked by robbers. They plunder and beat him, leaving him half dead by the roadside. A priest comes along and sees the injured man, but he promptly crosses the road to avoid him. A Levite then happens to pass by, and he also crosses the road to avoid him. Finally a Samaritan comes by and is touched by pity. He binds the stranger's wounds, carries him to a secure spot, and tenderly cares for him. Thus, the Samaritan becomes the perfect example of the good neighbor.
At first glance, this looks like a most beautiful story. But when we look beneath the surface, we see Jsus' vindictiveness only too clearly.
Let us carefully note the three persons who saw the unfortunate victim. They are a priest (Cohen), a Levite and a Samaritan. Anyone familiar with the three classes of Jews called to the Torah, knows that they are Cohen (priest), Levite and Israelite. We would therefore expect that after the Cohen and Levite passed up the victim, the story would tell us that the third person was an Israelite, an ordinary Jew.
Instead, however, Jsus substitutes a Samaritan, a member of a tribe who had been enemies with the Jews for almost five hundred years. This Samaritan then becomes the example of moral love. The Priests and Levites, who were the religious leaders of the Jews, were thus downgraded, while the hated Samaritan was praised. What Jsus is implying is that every Jew, even a religious leader, is incapable of even a simple act of mercy.
Even in his parable about love, Jsus was not above demonstrating his spite toward the Jewish leaders who rejected him. Good Samaritan is a byword among Chrstians to this very day. Many churches even bear the name, Church of the Good Samaritan. But Jsus' vindictiveness assured that there would never be a church with the name, Church of the Good Israelite.
JESUS said that the first shall be last and the last SHALL BE FIRST.
Jsus was even able to be vindictive against a tree. When he found himself hungry, he was not able to restrain his too human emotions. The Gospel thus records
(Matthew 2 1:18, 19), In the morning, on his way to the city, Jsus felt hungry. Seeing a fig tree near the road, he went up to it, but found nothing on it but leaves. He said to the tree, `may you never bear fruit anymore.' The tree then withered and died. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Gospel of Mark (11:13) makes it plain that it was not even the season for figs.
Did this innocent tree deserve such cruel punishment? It was not even the season for figs, and the tree was merely fulfilling its nature. If Jsus merely wanted to show his miraculous powers, as the gospel seems to indicate, why did he not command the tree to bring forth fruit?
When a fig tree has leaves it is supposed to have fruit ALSO.
Indeed, the Talmud (Taanis 24a) brings a very similar incident, but with a very different ending. Rabbi Yosi's son once wanted to provide his father's field hands with food. All he could find was a fig tree, but it was not the season, and the tree was bare. He cried out,
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fig tree, fig tree, send forth your fruit so that my father's workers may eat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Talmud tells us that the tree produced fruit before its time and the men were able to fill themselves.
If Jsus were truly capable of miracles, he could have done the same. Instead, he chose to display his vindictiveness. A primary teaching of Judaism is expressed by the Psalmist many generations before Jsus. He declared
In JESUS the CHRIST era no one performed Miracles But HIM and his Disciples.
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Psalm 145:9), G-d is good to all, and his love extends over all His works. No distinction is made between Jew and gentile.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXACTLY look at the church with JEWS and GENTILES in it today.
Contrast this with the following event in Jsus' career
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Mark 7:25-27): A woman whose daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit heard of Jsus, and came in, falling at his feet. She was a Gentile, a Phoenician from Syria. She begged Jsus to drive out the spirit from her daughter. Jsus replied, `Let the children be satisfied first. It is not right to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs.
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And the lady said that the DOGS EAT THE CRUMBS FROM THE MASTER TABLE and JESUS CAST THE SPIRITS OUT of her DAUGHTER.
From the context, it is obvious that the children mentioned by Jsus refer to the Jews, while the dogs were the gentiles. These dogs must be satisfied with scraps from the table.
And the lady said that the DOGS EAT THE CRUMBS FROM THE MASTER TABLE and JESUS CAST THE SPIRITS OUT of her DAUGHTER.
Now compare this narrow view with a teaching of the much maligned Pharisees (i.e. rabbis). They declare in the Talmud
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Gittin 61a), We are obliged to feed the gentile poor in exactly the same manner as we feed the Jewish poor. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can bring many such contrasts between Jewish and Chrstian ethics. In every case, the margin seems to be on the side of Judaism. Jsus may have taught many beautiful ideals, but unfortunately, he never seemed to be able to live up to them himself.
EPIC FAIL....NOT
Apparently, it was difficult even for Chrst to be a Chrstian.
I have attempted to response to this many times but was not able to , i guess your POST was too long but I did response to what I could located in the post above.
Last edited by Howest2008; 12-17-2011 at 11:11 PM..
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