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I realize that there is an interconnectedness in the history of the Christian faith and Judaism and I'm certainly no expert on the subject. From the Christian perspective the Bible clearly states that the Jews are the chosen people and Jesus himself is said to be a Jew. What seems perplexing to me is that the main religion of the Jews in the world is Judaism which of course has it's own set of beliefs and doesn't accept Jesus as the messiah. My question isn't really about Jusaism, it's about Christianity, and I'm simply wondering why the chosen people according to the Christian faith are the Jews and yet they don't even share the basic beliefs of Christians. This brings up a few questions. Christians believe that only by accepting Christ can an individual be saved. Does this mean that the overwhelming majority of Jews, God's chosen people, will not be saved? Also, doesn't it seem very strange that God's chosen people, according to Christianity, aren't even believers in the Christian faith?
Tens of thousands of Jews believed in Jesus, and Jesus came to make two people one people.
Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism for 100 years with gentiles attending synagogues with Jews.
Then the gentile church departed from the covenant made between Judah and themselves.
They called the commandments of God a strange thing, invented their own worship system and then went into persecuting Jews for 2000 years.
But for 100 years of loyalty in the first church, more and more Jews were becoming Christian until Christianity became something else.
By 325 a.d. The Jew could not possibly follow a Pagan Messiah who stood against the law, Jesus did not stand against the laws of Moses, but this new church shows a lawless Messiah in a lawless religion that it created itself, and this religion could not have been more racist of more Anti-Semitic, how would a Jew possibly believe in a Messiah who came to make a million followers persecute the people of God?
How could a Jew Join Christianity after Christianity spent century after century, decade after decade persecuting the only people who followed the commandments of God?
The Jews cannot accept Pagan Sabbaths and Pagan feasts from a lawless Messiah who teaches people against Jerusalem and against the religion of God.
You should have been commenting Emilo- since he brought it up.
Does it matter matter whether I quote you or Emilio? You said you agreed with him and are continuing to support the statement that there are Jews that believe in Jesus. You're both wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo
Anyways, your point is false and irrelevant. The point I was making was that in addition to Jews For Jesus, there is Messianic Judaism or Messianic Christianity and those that follow such. Whether it's accepted or rejected by others is a whole other story. I also was trying to clarify that there are slight differences between Messianic Christianity/Judaism and Jews for Jesus movement
Also who and what is Jewish is still up for debate. If one follows the theory or claim of Jewish being an ethnicity, then one can be Jewish ethnically and adherents of Messianic Christianity/Messianic Judaism.
Let's make this perfectly clear.
Jews for Jesus, the leading organization dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity, has long been a concern because of its aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept Jesus as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish.
Jews for Jesus is an official member of several Christian evangelical umbrella organizations, including the Interdenominational Foreign Mission Association and the World Evangelical Alliance, which took out a full-page ad in The New York Times on March 28, 2008, that defended targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity. Jews for Jesus: Targeting Jews for Conversion - Introduction
It's a Christian organization trying to convert people. When a Hindu person converts to Christianity is he still Hindu? No. He's Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo
Who are you to define or arbitrate who and what is Jewish?
I take it that last post of mine was too difficult for you to understand. I'll try again. Read it closer and tell me where I'm the one who is defining and arbitrating.
Jewish organizations, and the Supreme Court of Israel in cases related to the Law of Return, have rejected this claim, and instead consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.
Jews for Jesus is the theological equivalent to Vegetarians for Meat. I know you're a complete fundie so this is difficult for you to understand, but it's really not a complicated subject.
Does it matter matter whether I quote you or Emilio? You said you agreed with him and are continuing to support the statement that there are Jews that believe in Jesus. You're both wrong.
Let's make this perfectly clear.
Jews for Jesus, the leading organization dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity, has long been a concern because of its aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept Jesus as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish.
Jews for Jesus is an official member of several Christian evangelical umbrella organizations, including the Interdenominational Foreign Mission Association and the World Evangelical Alliance, which took out a full-page ad in The New York Times on March 28, 2008, that defended targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity. Jews for Jesus: Targeting Jews for Conversion - Introduction
It's a Christian organization trying to convert people. When a Hindu person converts to Christianity is he still Hindu? No. He's Christian.
I take it that last post of mine was too difficult for you to understand. I'll try again. Read it closer and tell me where I'm the one who is defining and arbitrating.
Jewish organizations, and the Supreme Court of Israel in cases related to the Law of Return, have rejected this claim, and instead consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.
Jews for Jesus is the theological equivalent to Vegetarians for Meat. I know you're a complete fundie so this is difficult for you to understand, but it's really not a complicated subject.
I doubt that there has ever been a worse religion that Jews for Jesus.
Yup.
Jews for Jesus has nothing to do with Jews, Jews for Jesus would taka a Jew and turn that Jew into a gentile.
I spoke in the Jews for Jesus forum for all the years they had a forum, and all I did was defend the Jews that came there.
They were so against Jews that I can't even think of a people more against Jews, and yet they say,'' Jews for Jesus.''
They have no Jews.
What they have is gentiles, and maybe Jews who have become gentiles, all they are is a Baptist church trying to turn a Jew into a Gentile.
the thing is there are sons of GOD not just a son of GOD
the Bene Elohim
Jesus he get his wisdom from the Kabbalah
the holy spirit is simply a reflection of the GOD of the self
we all have this
not because of one man but because of the grace of GOD
theres Christ but theres also Moses and Abraham and Jacob and Enoch and Melchizedek and Solomon and David and all the prophets and patriarchs
Jesus simply restates the wisdom of the Jews and the gnostics
the thing is there are sons of GOD not just a son of GOD
the Bene Elohim
Jesus he get his wisdom from the Kabbalah
the holy spirit is simply a reflection of the GOD of the self
we all have this
not because of one man but because of the grace of GOD
theres Christ but theres also Moses and Abraham and Jacob and Enoch and Melchizedek and Solomon and David and all the prophets and patriarchs
Jesus simply restates the wisdom of the Jews and the gnostics
There are 8 husbands.
Adam
Noah
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Judah
Jesus
And him, and he is 8th and of the first 7.
The woman at the well was told that she had had 5 husband but the one she wasn't married to was Judah.
Jesus was the 7th.
5 times that God set a people beside his seed to wed, then came Jesus and then came he, the 8th.
I realize that there is an interconnectedness in the history of the Christian faith and Judaism and I'm certainly no expert on the subject. From the Christian perspective the Bible clearly states that the Jews are the chosen people and Jesus himself is said to be a Jew. What seems perplexing to me is that the main religion of the Jews in the world is Judaism which of course has it's own set of beliefs and doesn't accept Jesus as the messiah. My question isn't really about Jusaism, it's about Christianity, and I'm simply wondering why the chosen people according to the Christian faith are the Jews and yet they don't even share the basic beliefs of Christians. This brings up a few questions. Christians believe that only by accepting Christ can an individual be saved. Does this mean that the overwhelming majority of Jews, God's chosen people, will not be saved? Also, doesn't it seem very strange that God's chosen people, according to Christianity, aren't even believers in the Christian faith?
The Jewish people are only God's chosen people under the Judaism religion (Old Testament). Under Christianity (New Testament) everyone that believes that Jesus is Lord and God is Saved by Faith in Jesus being the Christ.
The Bible says that we are Abraham Children by Faith In JESUS.
Does it matter matter whether I quote you or Emilio? You said you agreed with him and are continuing to support the statement that there are Jews that believe in Jesus. You're both wrong.
Let's make this perfectly clear.
Jews for Jesus, the leading organization dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity, has long been a concern because of its aggressive proselytizing with a deceptive message: that Jews who accept Jesus as the son of God and their savior remain Jewish.
Jews for Jesus is an official member of several Christian evangelical umbrella organizations, including the Interdenominational Foreign Mission Association and the World Evangelical Alliance, which took out a full-page ad in The New York Times on March 28, 2008, that defended targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity. Jews for Jesus: Targeting Jews for Conversion - Introduction
It's a Christian organization trying to convert people. When a Hindu person converts to Christianity is he still Hindu? No. He's Christian.
I take it that last post of mine was too difficult for you to understand. I'll try again. Read it closer and tell me where I'm the one who is defining and arbitrating.
Jewish organizations, and the Supreme Court of Israel in cases related to the Law of Return, have rejected this claim, and instead consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.
Jews for Jesus is the theological equivalent to Vegetarians for Meat. I know you're a complete fundie so this is difficult for you to understand, but it's really not a complicated subject.
When a Hindu is converted to Christianity he is no longer a Hindu , however Jewish convertion is totally different from a Hindu convertion .
Because when a (Jewish) man or woman boy or girl is converted to Christianity .
They become a completed (JEW) you complete the 40 years of being lost in the wilderness and march into the promise land as a completion of the Judea religion ( A Christian ).
There are two separate Jewish/Christian organization the first one being Jews for Jesus and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
Because when a (Jewish) man or woman boy or girl is converted to Christianity .
They become a completed (JEW) you complete the 40 years of being lost in the wilderness and march into the promise land as a completion of the Judea religion ( A Christian ).
There are two separate Jewish/Christian organization the first one being Jews for Jesus and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.
those are evangelical Christian missionary groups
they are rejected by every stream of Judaism worldwide
they are also denounced by mainstream Christian leadership for deceptive dishonest practices
there is nothing Jewish about them. they are evangelical Christians intentionally and deliberately seeking to deceive.
Jesus is the Messiah.. I'm an ex Jew and realized the truth. Believe me most Jews believe in Christ in secret but in fear of admitting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Go post that in the Judaism forum, please, for our entertainment.
You are kidding...right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivierad
Actually most are still in fear, just like homosexuals who are behind the closet.
I mean who wouldn't follow the best man who has ever walked on earth?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00
She did. And when I pointed out how Judaism feels about the topic (in the Judaism forum, mind you), she accused me of proselytizing. Just another garden variety evangelist who makes Christianity look even worse to Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivierad
God is mad at Jews for not accepting Christ as the lord and savior, so don't think God will be mad at you for spreading the good news and telling the truth
Jews are not allowed to proselytize. Even if they were, what's so attractive belonging to Judaism when they don't believe in Jesus (God)?! I wouldn't want to belong to a religion that looks down on other faiths, curse Christians on a daily basis and where a God demands people to be killed for various things.
I was Jewish myself decades ago so I know. FlipFlop is misguided and I truly feel bad for him/her.
This is getting close to bashing another religion so treading carefully should be the rule here. The Jews used their traditions and expectations proscrip[tively (predictively) as the basis for deciding who, what, and when the Messiah would come. That is why they missed Jesus. Christians used the prophecies retrospectively (after the fact) and that is how they discovered and validated Christ.
I have heard very different views on Jewishness. One is like the Christian OSAS, once a Jew always a Jew. Another claims Jewishness is hereditary and only passes down through the mother. Another that it is hereditary and only passes down through the father. Another that it can be chosen. I have no idea which is true, nor do I think it matters one iota to God. But I am convinced that if you follow Christ's instructions to love God and each other every day and repent when you don't, you will be acceptable to God no matter what you believe or what religion you claim.
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You should have been commenting Emilo- since he brought it up.
Just another garden variety evangelist who makes Christianity look even worse to Jews.
