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Don't have an answer to that one, I'm afraid. Science hasn't gotten that far yet, though a lot of work is done in that direction.
According to a popular scientific hypothesis, we will never know, as the Big Bang "erased" whatever happened before it, making it unobservable . But that's still speculation.
But let's skip a couple of pages of discussion, shall we? After all, given the OP, everybody knows what the point of the thread is.
- Some form of logical argument that the universe couldn't be eternal and had to have a cause (this debate has its own thread, if anybody's interested).
- A leap of faith: assuming that the Christian god is that cause.
- Special pleading to avoid the "who caused the first cause" paradox.
- Dismissing all criticism of any of the above.
- Ha! Atheists are stumped.
- Therefore God exists.
Yet...I have yet to see you explain how it wasn't caused. Most scientists today do believe that it started at some point. Rather than be rational though, you'd rather hold out hope (I would say faith) in a third alternative.
To clarify once again: my position is not "The universe always was", or something like that. My position is "I don't know, and neither do the scientists". The Big Bang theory is firmly established, but as for what "caused it", came before it, or if the question even makes sense, it's still speculation.
To clarify once again: my position is not "The universe always was", or something like that. My position is "I don't know, and neither do the scientists". The Big Bang theory is firmly established, but as for what "caused it", came before it, or if the question even makes sense, it's still speculation.
Speculation that can meet with an audience not knowing otherwise but waiting to laugh you to scorn?
Maybe we need to look into the "myths" of various ancient cultures and interpret them in terms (!) of modern science, jargon or no jargon.
Still waiting for real intercultural studies permitting spontaneous thought.
To clarify once again: my position is not "The universe always was", or something like that. My position is "I don't know, and neither do the scientists". The Big Bang theory is firmly established, but as for what "caused it", came before it, or if the question even makes sense, it's still speculation.
so was it caused or not?
Is it rational to conclude that it wasn't? Considering a basic fundamental fact is that nothing happens without being caused....
Is it rational to conclude that it wasn't? Considering a basic fundamental fact is that nothing happens without being caused....
The thing is, both options have logical issues. If it wasn't caused... well, everything we know has a cause (ok, not virtual particles), so we have trouble imagining how anything can lack one. If it had a cause, then we can look at that cause and ask the same question. Zeno's paradoxes. So, like Zeno, I admit my ignorance and bewilderment and leave the question for future scientists to answer, hoping that an answer is discoverable.
I don't know.
The thing is, both options have logical issues. If it wasn't caused... well, everything we know has a cause (ok, not virtual particles), so we have trouble imagining how anything can lack one. If it had a cause, then we can look at that cause and ask the same question. Zeno's paradoxes. So, like Zeno, I admit my ignorance and bewilderment and leave the question for future scientists to answer, hoping that an answer is discoverable.
So I'll take that as a "yeah, I'm sure it had a cause, but I'm too proud to call it God"?
it is not important how the universe is done
the important thing is who did it and Allah did it
it is strange that science reached to the big bang and it could not reach to the holy book
it is not important how the universe is done
the important thing is who did it and Allah did it
it is strange that science reached to the big bang and it could not reach to the holy book
That's the thing. It's a double standard. They're not willing to concede the existence of a higher power--despite all appearances and logic pointing to it. Instead they'd rather place their faith in a yet-undiscovered alternative.
First off, this isn't a simple question. You're deliberately, blatantly, and frankly quite clumsily trying to plant a land mine in hopes that someone will say something to which you can reply "it-had-to-be-that-god-did-it".
Nobody knows how the universe came into existence, but the simple fact is that just because we don't know doesn't make the answer automatically default to your magical creator-being.
Let's reiterate: "we don't know" is not equal to "god did it".
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. But that's still speculation.
