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Old 01-29-2009, 08:10 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,262,567 times
Reputation: 194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo View Post
So God's sovereignty is more important than the lives of us on earth and he allows suffering and death to happen. What an egotist god your religion paints.
My faith in God, and understanding of God is clear and unmovable.
Again, what is your solution? What hope do you have for our world?
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,890,100 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo View Post
Sorry, I have been a Buddhist, and I have been a Hindu, and I can tell you that the Buddhists especially don't believe in doing charity, except for a few groups like Thich Nhat Hanh. Most groups say that the way you help others is to just meditate and teach others the same. They actually put down engaged Buddhism.
Well, we're running with different crowds of Buddhists then. The ones I know well actually do believe in charity work and certainly wouldn't have left that child to die like the (supposedly Christian?) photographer. In fact, there are 246 Buddhist charities listed on the Central Register of Charities. Maybe it's just locality, but our experiences have been different.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:28 AM
 
Location: indiana
145 posts, read 264,769 times
Reputation: 113
I can only hope that the photographer paid his due in the after life and saying there not allowed to help just take pictures is a bunch of hog wash. I would have been unemployed but I would have put that camera down and still been able to live with myself. That was a choice he made so i do not feel bad for him at all... well said sususushi
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:49 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,169,024 times
Reputation: 1785
Seeing this thread has all but fizzled out here are a few more thoughts.

Both sides agree we as humans should be doing better than we are, both sides should see that humans are fallible and will likely remain so. Both side are disturbed by the pic and the action of the photographer.

In the scripture there are two that I have been thinking of and w/o looking them up are:
  1. Ye are gods.
  2. The earth cries out for the manifestation for the sons of god.
Is it not possible that our purpose in life is to one day achieve a collective consciousness in spite of our difference to do the right thing?

Religion IMO has likely denigrated this "purpose" in that instead of unification, it has led more to division and divisiveness.

History shows us the need of man to dominate others and that has been going on for eons.

Is this survival of the fittest in play here?

The unbelievers (I will not use the term evolutionist as I hold to certain precepts of evolution) have the concept in evolution that this rule comes into play in nature. Man being on top of the food chain thus influences not only his own species but also other animals and their environments, we need only look at the level of extinction that has taken place in recent times.

So we sit with a conundrum here in that which option is the most practical and humane to apply.
  1. A collective moral consciousness?
  2. Survival of the fittest?
Granted that this does not address the OP but one needs to take this to a "what now" scenario.

Were we all to become our brother's keeper, would that not address the many evils we witness in the world? Would that not be a manifestation of sons? Would that not be something godlike?

Or am I just too optimistic?

Thoughts
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,972,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
My faith in God, and understanding of God is clear and unmovable.
Again, what is your solution? What hope do you have for our world?
Are you sure you understand god?
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,691,131 times
Reputation: 47474
bek too many people say
OMG aint that awful
instead of picking up the kid
of course here if you pick up the kid
then your are a pedaphile
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:08 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,262,567 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Are you sure you understand god?
Yup! I don't claim to know ALL things about God...but I do understand the reason for suffering in our world.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:30 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,574,809 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Actually, cg81, I think the answer is quite simple and should be to any believer who really ponders the situation although they may not like the answer.

To me, it's very obvious that if we have "free will" as so many suggest and if God exists than he simply does not interfere at all with our lives. He does not stop murderers from murdering, he does not help Tommy with his homework, he does not save starving children from being eaten and he does not make vehicles swerve out of the way to save your life - all of those things that people attribute to God are merely the result of living in a "free will" world.
I see what you are saying, and agree in this sense.. like the Bible says, "time and chance happens to all". We live in a natural world with natural laws set in motion. Disasters happen etc. We have been given free will. People hurt and kill others. I believe that there are alot of things, good or bad, that people attribute to "acts of God" that are simply the course of nature or the choices of people, like you say.. the result of living in a free will world.

If a tornado came thru my house today and everything was destroyed, my wife and kids were killed, I would not feel that was an "act of God". Sure, He allowed it, because He didn't stop it.. but it was simply an act of nature, a normal event that happened because of the properties of this (temporary) earth we live on. But at the same time, He's not just sitting there.. the comfort that God can give in a time of bereavement or disaster is something that I can't describe.

Really, this earth is kind of a testing ground.. like I mentioned, a temporary place. We all have to go thru it.. experience life, death, disaster, grief. God is with us thru those times.

At the same time, we can't say that God never intervenes. He does. Prayers have been clearly answered affecting natural events.. and like you say, as a result of this, it does have a chain reaction of events. Simply one tragedy averted, saving one person, will have effects on many lives. This does not at all take away from our free will. We still have the ability to choose.
Quote:
So, just imagine if God intervened in everything how particularly sloppy it would be. Sure, it's God, and God can control everything, right? Well, that's fine but I don't see God intervening in people's lives because to do so would trigger events that would otherwise violate the free will of the individual as well as a variety of other individual's around them.
Yes, if He would intervene in every event, "free will" would mean nothing. Why He seems to intervene at times and at other times let "nature" take its course are questions mankind has had from the beginning of time. I'm not God, so I can't tell you.

Last edited by cg81; 01-29-2009 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:54 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,574,809 times
Reputation: 968
To build on this thought abit more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
So, just imagine if God intervened in everything how particularly sloppy it would be. Sure, it's God, and God can control everything, right? Well, that's fine but I don't see God intervening in people's lives because to do so would trigger events that would otherwise violate the free will of the individual as well as a variety of other individual's around them. So, even if God were able to keep this master thesis of an idea under control, by this point in time, given all of human interaction (with just one single answered prayer or intervention for every human being) I think it'd be pretty safe to say we're not acting upon free will anymore and that free will would simply be an illusion.
Well, yes and no. You might argue that we don't have free will because everything that happens only happens because God has allowed it.. because He hasn't prevented it.. but does this really interfere with our free will? Not really.

Just an example: Imagine that God intervened in an event that would have taken your father's life when he was a boy. Your father grew up, your parents got married, and you were born. Were anyone's choices violated? Altho you are only here because God intervened, does that limit your free will?
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:31 AM
 
4,997 posts, read 13,582,917 times
Reputation: 2400
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfarris View Post
I can only hope that the photographer paid his due in the after life and saying there not allowed to help just take pictures is a bunch of hog wash. I would have been unemployed but I would have put that camera down and still been able to live with myself. That was a choice he made so i do not feel bad for him at all... well said sususushi
and that is what god does on a daily basis. walks away
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