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Old 08-08-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,938 posts, read 9,711,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
In Somalia, there is help available, but the militants stand in the way. This cannot be blamed on God.
Why not? Ever heard of culpable negligence? What is needed in Somalia is rain so that they can grow their own food an feed themselves. What could the militants do to stop it raining.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur View Post
it's pretty difficult for God to help when people don't believe in Him. He has tried for centuries to show mankind how much He loves us but what do we do? we spit in His face, we deny He even exists, we mock Him and defy Him.

let's look at it this way. how many times did anyone of us disobey our parents to the point where they gave up and told us that if we're so smart to just go ahead and do whatever. what happened? we probably messed up and continued until we wised up. so how many times has God shown Himself to us only to see us deny Him and/or to turn our back on Him thinking, i can do it better myself?

mankind has become a bitter, ruthless, uncaring, unloving, and proud bunch with a smattering of people who truly do care. pretty hard to get good fruit from a dying tree though. we have only ourselves to blame for the depravity and corruption and atrocities that are prevalent today. God has turned us over to the pride and sinfulness of our hearts and we are reaping the consequences.
I know you would like to believe that, but tell me why then that believers, even the very devout get the dirty end of the stick just as often as non believers. God has never shown himself to anyone, ever.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,024 posts, read 1,910,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur View Post
it's pretty difficult for God to help when people don't believe in Him. He has tried for centuries to show mankind how much He loves us but what do we do? we spit in His face, we deny He even exists, we mock Him and defy Him.

let's look at it this way. how many times did anyone of us disobey our parents to the point where they gave up and told us that if we're so smart to just go ahead and do whatever. what happened? we probably messed up and continued until we wised up. so how many times has God shown Himself to us only to see us deny Him and/or to turn our back on Him thinking, i can do it better myself?

mankind has become a bitter, ruthless, uncaring, unloving, and proud bunch with a smattering of people who truly do care. pretty hard to get good fruit from a dying tree though. we have only ourselves to blame for the depravity and corruption and atrocities that are prevalent today. God has turned us over to the pride and sinfulness of our hearts and we are reaping the consequences.
God not intervening in human affairs really doesn't give people much incentive to believe in him in the first place. How has he shown "how much he loves us?" Examples please? If God poked his hands through the clouds, sprinkled rain over drought-ridden areas and made hot meals mysteriously appear in front of the hungry, I think a lot more people would actually believe because obviously there would be good reason. In the meantime, the non-believers' incentive for believing is pretty much the same as your incentive for believing in Santa Claus or that your God is a three-headed dragon.

As far as your last statement, wouldn't an omniscient God have seen the supposed destruction of humanity coming? Is this part of his plan? What you're saying doesn't make sense. How could God not be to blame for any of this if he is all-knowing and planned the direction of humanity billions of years ago?
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,515,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
So God created them knowing full well what would happen because of the way he created them, and everything is God's will, but yet, these militants are not what God had in mind when he created them?
Don't be obtuse. God creates human beings, not militants. The inherent depravity of mankind explains everything you love to complain about.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,515,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Why not? Ever heard of culpable negligence? What is needed in Somalia is rain so that they can grow their own food an feed themselves. What could the militants do to stop it raining.
The militants could abandon their weapons, abandon their cause and help with the Somali relief effort. They could help feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and comfort the dying. But will they?
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Don't be obtuse. God creates human beings, not militants. The inherent depravity of mankind explains everything you love to complain about.
1...God does not create humans. 2...Mankind is not inherently depraved.

Inherently means.....Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic, and that is just not true.
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,515,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
1...God does not create humans. 2...Mankind is not inherently depraved.

Inherently means.....Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic, and that is just not true.
Man is inherently depraved. Let's not kid ourselves. Atheists owe their whole cynical existence to the depravity of man. What would Christopher Hitchens write about in a world without human depravity?
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Man is inherently depraved. Let's not kid ourselves. Atheists owe their whole cynical existence to the depravity of man. What would Christopher Hitchens write about in a world without human depravity?
You are funny! I didn't say that no humans were depraved, just that it is NOT an inherent condition...Most of us are good caring people, including Mr. Hitchens and us godless atheists. You are trying to say that all people are depraved. I guess that would have to include all Christians too then.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,044,559 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654 View Post
So you think of no one but yourself and not others, no wonder there is starvation in this world, it is a me me world as far as your concern.
Well who's going to look out for me if I don't? No one, that's who. I fail to see why the whole of humanity is my responsibility. I look for my family and myself.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,877 posts, read 4,044,559 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Man is inherently depraved. Let's not kid ourselves. Atheists owe their whole cynical existence to the depravity of man. What would Christopher Hitchens write about in a world without human depravity?
Well then god created us that way did he not? And since we're "created in the image of god," does that mean god's inherently depraved?
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