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Old 01-28-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,907,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It wasn't goat herders that told me that evidence points to a creator. Not sure why you'd suggest that.

Use logic. that's all I ask.

What started it all? Maybe the answer isn't in physics. Or maybe physicists will one day confirm what the evidence points to.

You're correct, the answer may not be in physics, but I can tell you that it's a gigantic, almost unimaginable longshot that goddidit. NOBODY knows what started it all, but at least we're trying to figure it out. It's kind of sad to be basing the beginnings of our universe on something a 5 year old can recite.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:26 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,095,243 times
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kdbrich...check out my post...feel free to comment.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
1,090 posts, read 1,957,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
*pointing to the world around me*

Just a little thing called cause and effect.
Oh my stars, you're serious.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,805,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It wasn't goat herders that told me that evidence points to a creator. Not sure why you'd suggest that.

Use logic. that's all I ask.

What started it all? Maybe the answer isn't in physics. Or maybe physicists will one day confirm what the evidence points to.
Oh, and what evidence would that be?
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:31 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,389,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It wasn't goat herders that told me that evidence points to a creator. Not sure why you'd suggest that.

Use logic. that's all I ask.

What started it all? Maybe the answer isn't in physics. Or maybe physicists will one day confirm what the evidence points to.
Goat herders wrote much of the bible. You wouldn't believe in creationism if you hadn't read the bible and/or heard others tell you about the bible and its contents. That's why I suggested that your explanation is based on what people have told you about what goat herders came up with thousands of years ago.

I am using logic. Logic is basically about saying "this is true, therefore that has to be true." A big part of logic is logical fallacy, where someone claims something is true but there is an error in the explanation as to why.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:38 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,923,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Goat herders wrote much of the bible. You wouldn't believe in creationism if you hadn't read the bible and/or heard others tell you about the bible and its contents. That's why I suggested that your explanation is based on what people have told you about what goat herders came up with thousands of years ago.

I am using logic. Logic is basically about saying "this is true, therefore that has to be true." A big part of logic is logical fallacy, where someone claims something is true but there is an error in the explanation as to why.
Actually...they were sheep herders. Some of the Bible was written by shepherds. Some were written by Kings. One chapter was written by the King Nebuchadnezzar.

You suggest that if not for the Bible I wouldn't believe in creation. Most civilizations on earth have some form of creation story--regardless of a Bible or not.

In every other aspect of life we believe in cause and effect. Yet, you don't believe in the cause of our universe. That's irrational. I'm sorry. You guys are just not being rational.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
971 posts, read 1,506,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
I'll be honest--I'm not familiar enough with the theories to understand it all.
Which is part of my point. None of us on this forum has enough qualifications to truly understand the current scientific theories about the origins of the universe. We can link to vulgarisation, but that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
Dictionary.com defines fairy tale as:
  1. A fictitious, highly fanciful story or explanation.
Clinging to the idea that "we don't know what it is, but it can't be God--despite all the evidence" is a fairy tale.
"I don't know" is only fictious if I do in fact know (I don't), it is neither a story nor an explanation, and it's not particularly fanciful.


Besides, saying "we don't know" is not "it can't be God".

If we know nothing, we are forced to consider all conceivable possibilities equally - God, a bad case of virtual particles, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, something else that we haven't thought of... For some reason you attribute much more value to the God hypothesis, I wonder why.

The good news is that not everybody on earth is completely ignorant on the subject. Qualified scientists are able to judge whether one hypothesis or another is more coherent with what little observable evidence we have, make up new and better hypothesis. Unfortunately, there currently isn't enough information to be certain (and according to some there will never be ), but at least they can make better guesses.

Right now, according to those articles linked by anaarkh, those guesses don't seem to require a god - or a flying spaghetti monster. Until new evidence change our minds, we can put both hypothesis in the "unlikely" category.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
1,090 posts, read 1,957,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Actually...they were sheep herders. Some of the Bible was written by shepherds. Some were written by Kings. One chapter was written by the King Nebuchadnezzar.

You suggest that if not for the Bible I wouldn't believe in creation. Most civilizations on earth have some form of creation story--regardless of a Bible or not.

In every other aspect of life we believe in cause and effect. Yet, you don't believe in the cause of our universe. That's irrational. I'm sorry. You guys are just not being rational.
Mmmhmm.. and the Japanese creation myths sure are something.

Bukkake of the Gods: Japan's Insane Creation Myths | Cracked.com
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,805,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Can you answer my question? I'm sorry if it offends you that I ask questions that the "intelligent" folk here can't answer.
Well at least intelligent folks are honest enough to say I do not know, but fundies seem to have a big problem with those words...Why is that I wonder.
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Old 01-28-2009, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 33,471,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Where did the space for the universe come from?

Matter?

Anyone?
I don't like the way that this is couched, but Einstein believed in a god as does Hawking. What these men of science and mathematics call "god" is not necessarily the same entity that a fundamentalist protestant refers to by the same name, but it recognizes that there are things that we may never understand and that there is an order and organization to "the way stuff works" that is incomprehensibly improbable. That is what science calls "god" and the acceptance of religion should not be mutually exclusive to the acceptance of science (or vice-versa). If it is, you are probably embracing unreasonability more than anything else.

You have a brain but you also have a soul. Don't forget about either.
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