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Old 01-30-2009, 07:13 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,258,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
At know time did I say Jesus is equal to His Father, what I am saying is it requires three persons to equal One God. And that is why God tells us "Let (US) create man in (OUR) image and in (OUR) likeness. If you do not believe this, who is God speaking to here?
To say that the Father/God/Yahweh/Jehovah is not God unless he has the other 2 in "cahoots" with Him seems be doubting His power.
He is speaking to Jesus...notice GOD is speaking to Jesus...giving him instruction. If you are saying that Jesus is God because he is made in God's image and likeness, then are we not ALL part of this "trinity" (which would make it more than a trinity now) because we are all made in their image and likeness?
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
To say that the Father/God/Yahweh/Jehovah is not God unless he has the other 2 in "cahoots" with Him seems be doubting His power.
He is speaking to Jesus...notice GOD is speaking to Jesus...giving him instruction. If you are saying that Jesus is God because he is made in God's image and likeness, then are we not ALL part of this "trinity" (which would make it more than a trinity now) because we are all made in their image and likeness?
And if the Father is speaking with Jesus, then Jesus would have to be part of the 3 in one God. Because the Bible tells us that God made all things (ALONE) and by (HIMSELF). God had no little helpers in creation. I do not doubt Gods power, I understand the the 3 in one God.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:33 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,258,802 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
And if the Father is speaking with Jesus, then Jesus would have to be part of the 3 in one God. Because the Bible tells us that God made all things (ALONE) and by (HIMSELF). God had no little helpers in creation. I do not doubt Gods power, I understand the the 3 in one God.
I stink at illustrations but I'll give this a try...
It is like a man who owns a construction company. He provides the plan and the means, but oversees the project. After the building is complete, his competitor tries to steal the credit for the building. He emphatically says, "I built that myself!"

Col 1:15-17

We could go 'round and 'round...this thread has already happened...why don't we just go back and read that. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine.
Much respect!
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
So you are saying that The Father/Yahweh/Jehovah isn't powerful enough...isn't ALMIGHTY? He NEEDS the other 2 to be God? He's the one who gives authority....


Shawn...In Matthew 4:3,6 Satan is asking Jesus to prove he is THE SON OF GOD, and tempting him with power and praying on his physical weaknesses as he had just fasted. How does Jesus answer? Read all of Matt 4 and it is clear that Jesus is saying it is his Father you must worship, and not to put his Father to the test.
The underlined part, I find most peculiar because some people say Jesus was God in the flesh...others say he was not fully God because he was in human form. Jesus said many times that he was given the authority by his Father. Matt 28:18, John 10:17,18, 1 Cor 15:24-28.

So are you guys really saying that Jesus and his Father are completely equal in authority?
They are equal, Jesus said that Him and The Father are one. Satan had to leave Jesus because Jesus had authority over him. We have the authority that Jesus has given us to finish his work, so when we drive out demons in Jesus name, what is it about Jesus, bc He is God. I clearly gave scriptures that prove that he is God, but you failed to even say anything about them. The proof is there, it is up to you to accept it. But even if you don't, Jesus is still God.

Matthew 1:23, John 1:4, Col. 1:16-17, Rev. 1:17, John 8:24, John 13:19, Exodus 3:14 , again here are the scriptures that prove that Jesus is God, if you choose to not accept, then you are calling Jesus a lier on what he said. He said that he was God, and if you read these scriptures then it plainly says it.

So, the way that I see it, really you don't have a problem with people believing that Jesus is God, you and others have a problem with God, and what he said. So, the way that I see it, take it up with him, and call God a lier, and see how far you get with that. Jesus calls himself God, if you don't believe it, so be it, that is your problem. The proof is there but you just dont want to except it. So, read through the scriptures.

So, how can Christ have create things in heaven and on earth without being God? Colossians 1:15-17

How could Christ use the same name I am, as the God of the Old Testament? JOhn 13:19

HOw is it when Christ was born, he was given the name Immanuel? ( God with us)Matthew 1:23

We are not saying that Jesus is equal, Jesus is saying that he is equal, and we are agreeing, because we see the evidence in scripture. So, you have a problem with Christ, not us, we did not make it up, like I said Jesus says who he is.

God spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he spoke with Moses. So, how could Jesus have spoken with Moses in the Old Testament. Wow how is that, bc that was The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that was speaken to Moses. ( Gen 1:26 Then God said Let (us) make man in (our) image, in (our) likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the bird of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So, who is the us, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

If you would take the time to read the bible and put the puzzle together, then it would make since. Like I said who is the us, who is the us, who is the us, who is the us. Can you answer that. If you answer that then you will see Jesus for who he is.

Also in Abrahams time, he was having an encounter with God in the New Testament. In John 8:59 I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born I am, at this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them and so passed by.
-They wanted to stone him because he was telling them that he was God
-He was saying that he was the I am before Abraham was born

So, if you don't believe you are just over looking and calling Jesus, God a lier.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,194 posts, read 2,864,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
"Voabdony" is more than likely a misspelling on the OP's part. Probably just typing too quickly! I suspect he meant "Vo' adonai," meaning that Jesus didn't specifically claim to be God.
Which, in fact, he didn't--that would have been treason under Roman law (remember who was occupying the country at the time) and brought the authorities down on him, posthaste. He had to be very circumspect in the things he said publicly.
Your take on things would be spot on if we were talking about a politician from today, but I don't think Jesus would have been to conservative with his message. Everything about Jesus encited hatred from certain groups of people, least of all the aristocracy and of course the religious leaders. I believe Jesus shared his message until he was no longer allowed to, in his human form that is.

And no, there is no where in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God himself. The Trinity is a purely Christian idea with no real evidence to back it's claims of Jesus being God. I believe Jesus was a son of God, that he lived a holy life and preached the goodness and mercy of God. I believe he was delivered on the cross back to his and our father, and then was sent back in the form of a spirit to continue spreading his message of peace, love, and maintaining a moral lifestyle. I believe he is our brother, and God is our father. God himself told us never to put another before him. Placing Jesus on high as if he himself was God is blasphemous. Jesus was holy, Jesus was God's son, Jesus died for us all, but Jesus was not God.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:10 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
Your take on things would be spot on if we were talking about a politician from today, but I don't think Jesus would have been to conservative with his message. Everything about Jesus encited hatred from certain groups of people, least of all the aristocracy and of course the religious leaders. I believe Jesus shared his message until he was no longer allowed to, in his human form that is.

And no, there is no where in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God himself. The Trinity is a purely Christian idea with no real evidence to back it's claims of Jesus being God. I believe Jesus was a son of God, that he lived a holy life and preached the goodness and mercy of God. I believe he was delivered on the cross back to his and our father, and then was sent back in the form of a spirit to continue spreading his message of peace, love, and maintaining a moral lifestyle. I believe he is our brother, and God is our father. God himself told us never to put another before him. Placing Jesus on high as if he himself was God is blasphemous. Jesus was holy, Jesus was God's son, Jesus died for us all, but Jesus was not God.
Yes, Jesus said that he was God, and here it is.

They are equal, Jesus said that Him and The Father are one. Satan had to leave Jesus because Jesus had authority over him. We have the authority that Jesus has given us to finish his work, so when we drive out demons in Jesus name, what is it about Jesus, bc He is God. I clearly gave scriptures that prove that he is God, but you failed to even say anything about them. The proof is there, it is up to you to accept it. But even if you don't, Jesus is still God.

Matthew 1:23, John 1:4, Col. 1:16-17, Rev. 1:17, John 8:24, John 13:19, Exodus 3:14 , again here are the scriptures that prove that Jesus is God, if you choose to not accept, then you are calling Jesus a lier on what he said. He said that he was God, and if you read these scriptures then it plainly says it.

So, the way that I see it, really you don't have a problem with people believing that Jesus is God, you and others have a problem with God, and what he said. So, the way that I see it, take it up with him, and call God a lier, and see how far you get with that. Jesus calls himself God, if you don't believe it, so be it, that is your problem. The proof is there but you just dont want to except it. So, read through the scriptures.

So, how can Christ have create things in heaven and on earth without being God? Colossians 1:15-17

How could Christ use the same name I am, as the God of the Old Testament? JOhn 13:19

HOw is it when Christ was born, he was given the name Immanuel? ( God with us)Matthew 1:23

We are not saying that Jesus is equal, Jesus is saying that he is equal, and we are agreeing, because we see the evidence in scripture. So, you have a problem with Christ, not us, we did not make it up, like I said Jesus says who he is.

God spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he spoke with Moses. So, how could Jesus have spoken with Moses in the Old Testament. Wow how is that, bc that was The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that was speaken to Moses. ( Gen 1:26 Then God said Let (us) make man in (our) image, in (our) likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the bird of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So, who is the us, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

If you would take the time to read the bible and put the puzzle together, then it would make since. Like I said who is the us, who is the us, who is the us, who is the us. Can you answer that. If you answer that then you will see Jesus for who he is.

Also in Abrahams time, he was having an encounter with God in the New Testament. In John 8:59 I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born I am, at this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them and so passed by.
-They wanted to stone him because he was telling them that he was God
-He was saying that he was the I am before Abraham was born

So, if you don't believe you are just over looking and calling Jesus, God a lier.


Jesus said that his name is I am, just like God in the Old Testament.

John 1:1-12

but his name is Immanuel ( God with us)

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 01-30-2009 at 07:25 PM.. Reason: Text error
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:18 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,672,705 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I stink at illustrations but I'll give this a try...
It is like a man who owns a construction company. He provides the plan and the means, but oversees the project. After the building is complete, his competitor tries to steal the credit for the building. He emphatically says, "I built that myself!"

Col 1:15-17

We could go 'round and 'round...this thread has already happened...why don't we just go back and read that. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine.
Much respect!
So what are you trying to tell me here? Jesus was trying to steal the credit for the creation of the universe? Or is it the other way around?
When the truth is so much easier to believe, it's sad to see someone draw such a conclusion. This is the best you can do? So according to you, either Jesus was lying, or the Father was lying? WOW.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,341,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
Yes, Jesus said that he was God, and here it is.

They are equal, Jesus said that Him and The Father are one. Satan had to leave Jesus because Jesus had authority over him. We have the authority that Jesus has given us to finish his work, so when we drive out demons in Jesus name, what is it about Jesus, bc He is God. I clearly gave scriptures that prove that he is God, but you failed to even say anything about them. The proof is there, it is up to you to accept it. But even if you don't, Jesus is still God.

Matthew 1:23, John 1:4, Col. 1:16-17, Rev. 1:17, John 8:24, John 13:19, Exodus 3:14 , again here are the scriptures that prove that Jesus is God, if you choose to not accept, then you are calling Jesus a lier on what he said. He said that he was God, and if you read these scriptures then it plainly says it.

So, the way that I see it, really you don't have a problem with people believing that Jesus is God, you and others have a problem with God, and what he said. So, the way that I see it, take it up with him, and call God a lier, and see how far you get with that. Jesus calls himself God, if you don't believe it, so be it, that is your problem. The proof is there but you just dont want to except it. So, read through the scriptures.

So, how can Christ have create things in heaven and on earth without being God? Colossians 1:15-17

How could Christ use the same name I am, as the God of the Old Testament? JOhn 13:19

HOw is it when Christ was born, he was given the name Immanuel? ( God with us)Matthew 1:23

We are not saying that Jesus is equal, Jesus is saying that he is equal, and we are agreeing, because we see the evidence in scripture. So, you have a problem with Christ, not us, we did not make it up, like I said Jesus says who he is.

God spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus says that he spoke with Moses. So, how could Jesus have spoken with Moses in the Old Testament. Wow how is that, bc that was The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that was speaken to Moses. ( Gen 1:26 Then God said Let (us) make man in (our) image, in (our) likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the bird of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So, who is the us, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

If you would take the time to read the bible and put the puzzle together, then it would make since. Like I said who is the us, who is the us, who is the us, who is the us. Can you answer that. If you answer that then you will see Jesus for who he is.

Also in Abrahams time, he was having an encounter with God in the New Testament. In John 8:59 I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born I am, at this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them and so passed by.
-They wanted to stone him because he was telling them that he was God
-He was saying that he was the I am before Abraham was born

So, if you don't believe you are just over looking and calling Jesus, God a lier.


Jesus said that his name is I am, just like God in the Old Testament.

John 1:1-12

but his name is Immanuel ( God with us)
Well, me personally I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, people just don't want to read scripture, they try to go around it, because they can't disprove. These are other names of Jesus


Adam, the Last (1 Cor. 15:45)Advocate (1 Jn. 2:1)All & in All (Col. 3:11)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8)Altogether Lovely One (Song of Sol. 5:16)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Anchor (Heb. 6:19)
Ancient of Days (Dan. 7:9-11 with Rev. 1:13-16)
Angel [of the Lord] (Gen. 16:9-14; Gen. 48:16)
Anointed, His (Ps. 2:2). See also Messiah.
Apostle (Heb. 3:1)
Arm of the Lord (Isa. 53:1)
Alpha & Omega (Rev. 1:8; 21:6)
Author (Heb. 12:2)
Balm of Gilead (Jer. 8:22)
Beginning (Col. 1:18)
Begotten (One and Only – John 3:16)
Beloved (Eph. 1:6)
Bishop of your souls (1 Pet. 2:25)
Blessed and only Potentate (1 Tim. 6:15)
Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; Rev. 11:1)
Bread (John 6:32-33; 6:35)
Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15; Jn. 3:29; Rev. 21:9)
Bright & Morning Star, see Star.
Brightness of His (God's) glory (Heb. 1:3)
Captain of their salvation (Heb. 2:12; Josh. 5:4)
Carpenter['s son] (Mt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3)
Chief[est among ten thousand] Song of Sol. 5:10)
Child, [the young] (Isa. 9:6; Mt. 2:8-21)
Chosen of God (Lk. 23:35)
Christ (Mt. 1:17; Mk. 8:29; Jn. 1:41; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:23)
Comforter (Isa. 61:2; Jn. 14:16)
Commander (Isa. 55:4)
Consolation of Israel (Lk. 2:25)
Corn of Wheat (Jn. 12:24)
Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20; see also Isa. 28:16)
Counsellor (Isa. 9:6; Isa. 40:13)
Covert (Isa. 32:2)
Creator of all things (Col. 1:16)
Daysman (Job 9:33)
Dayspring from on high (Lk. 1:78)
Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19). See also Bright & Morning Star.
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Desire of all nations (Hag. 2:7)
Door [of the sheepfold] (Jn. 10:7, 9)
Immanuel (Mt. 1:23; see also Isa. 7:14; 8:8)
End, see Beginning & the End. End of the Law (Rom 10:4)
Express image of His (God's) person (Heb. 1:3)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5; 3:14; 19:11)
Faithful & True (Rev. 19:11)
Father of Eternity (Isa. 9:6)
Fellow of God (Zech. 13:7)
First & the Last (Rev. 1:17)
First begotten of the dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn Firstfruits [of them that slept] (1 Cor. 15:20, 23)
Foundation (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 3:11)
Fountain (Jer. 2:13; Zech. 13:1)
Forerunner (Heb. 6:20)
Friend of sinners (Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:34)
Fulness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9)
Gift of God (Jn. 4:10; 2 Cor. 9:15)
Glory of God (Isa. 60:1)
God (Jn. 1:1; Mt. 1:23; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:8)
Good Master (Mt. 19:16)
Governor (Mt. 2:6)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Guide (Ps. 48:14)
Head (even Christ) (Eph. 4:15)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
Helper (Heb. 13:6)
Hiding Place (Isa. 32:2)
High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 7:1)
Holy Child (Acts 4:30)
Holy One [& the Just] (Acts 2:27; 3:14)
Hope of Israel (Jer. 17:3)
Horn of salvation (Ps. 18:2; Lk. 1:69)
I AM (Jn. 8:24, 58)
Image of [the invisible] God (2 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:15)
Intercessor (Heb. 7:25)
Jehovah (Isa. 26:4; 40:3)
Jesus (Mt. 1:21)
Judge (Micah 5:1; Acts 10:42)
Just One (Acts 7:52)
King (Zech. 14:16)
Kinsman (Ruth 2:14)
Lamb [of God] (Jn. 1:29, 36; 1 Pet 1:19; Rev. 5:6, 12; 7:17)
Last, see First. (Rev. 22:13)
Lawgiver (Isa. 33:22)
Life (1 Jn. 1:2)
Light (Jn. 12:35)
Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Lord [& Saviour] (1 Cor. 12:3; 2 Pet. 1:11), see also Master.
Man (Jn. 19:5; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5). See also Son of Man.
Master (Mt. 8:19)
Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
Merciful High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Mercy Seat (Rom. 3:24-25)
Messiah (Dan. 9:25; Jn. 1:41; 4:25)
Mighty God (Isa. 9:6; 63:1)
Minister of the Sanctuary (Heb. 8:2)
Nazarene (Mk. 1:24)
Nobleman (Lk. 19:12)
Offering (Eph. 5:2; Heb. 10:10)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16). See also Root.
Ointment poured forth (Song of Sol. 1:3)
Omega. See Alpha & Omega.
One and Only Son, see Son. (John 3:16)
Passover (1 Cor. 5:7)
Peace, our (Eph. 2:14)
Physician (Mt. 9:12; Lk. 4:23)
Plant of Renown (Ezek. 34:29)
Potentate, Blessed and only, see Blessed Prince [& a Saviour] (Acts 3:15; 5:31)
Prophet (Acts 3:22-23)
Propitiation (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Quickening (life-giving) Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)
Rabbi (Jn. 3:2; Mt. 26:25; Jn. 20:16)
Ransom (1 Tim. 2:6)
Redeemer, Redemption (Isa. 59:20; 60:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)
Refuge (Isa. 25:4)
Resurrection & the Life (Jn. 11:25)
Righteousness (Jer. 23:6; 33:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)
Rock [of offence] (Deut. 32:15; 1 Cor. 10:4; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:8)
Rod (Isa. 11:1)
Root (Rev. 22:16)
Rose of Sharon (Song of Sol. 2:1)
Sacrifice (Eph. 5:2)
Same, the (Heb. 1:12)
Sanctification (1 Cor. 1:30)
Saviour [of the world] (Lk. 1:47; 2:11; 1 Jn. 4:14)
Second Man, see Man.
Seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16, 19)
Seed Servant (Isa. 42:1; 49:5-7; Mt. 12:18)
Shadow of a great Rock (Isa. 32:2)
Shepherd ( 1 Peter 5:4)
Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)
Son (Isa. 9:6; 1 Jn. 4:14)
Sower (Mt. 13:37)
Star (Num. 24:17)
Stone (Psalm 118:22)
Sun of Righteousness (Mal. 4:2)
Surety (Heb. 7:22)
Teacher (Mt. 26:18; Jn. 3:2; 11:28). See also Master.
Tender Plant (Isa. 53:2)
Testator (Heb. 9:15-17)
True Bread, see Bread.
Truth (Jn. 14:6)
Vine (Jn. 15:1, 5)
Way (Jn. 14:6)
Wisdom [of God] (1 Cor. 1:24, 30)
Wonderful (Isa. 9:6)
Word (Jn. 1:1)


Now, the only name that people have a problem with is God, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End, I am, when people read the other names they dont have a problem, why is that. They except it, so when you read that he is clearly saying that he is God, why have a problem when the scriptures say that he is God?

The only scripture that people want to cling to is the Son of God, and yes he is, and he also says that he is the I am. God created the universe, and I'm sure if he can do that, then surely he can he a father and a son.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 01-31-2009 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: spacing off
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:40 AM
 
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This is incredible.

We've gone back to a thread about "Encryption Theology" with regard to the same dead end subject ???
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:30 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,579,172 times
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
This is incredible.

We've gone back to a thread about "Encryption Theology" with regard to the same dead end subject ???

But in most beautiful colours.
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