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Old 01-29-2009, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
So how the heck did they come out with the Lake?? Was it pouring rain that day, or what?
Lakes are more scenic. Almost everyone has seen a beautiful lake somewhere.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
I have some questions about the Lake of Fire.
Beyond any doubt I am head for it, many people have already told me.
So I'd like to be prepared...
Surely it will be very hot. I would like to avoid the Lake's surface. Does anyone know if the Lake of Fire has a boat rental facility? If yes, are the rates by the hour, day, or week?
Also, maybe I'd like to do some fishing. What kind of fish can I expect to catch? Will there be a bait and tackle shop nearby?
Does the Lake of Fire have a sandy beach? It sure would be nice to relax once in a while.
Are there any secluded coves where I can sometimes get away from the vast multitude of sinners?
If you even had a clue of what this place was like, you would not think of it as a joke. I pray to God you find Christ before you leave this world, because without Christ, you will soon understand that hell is a place of total horror. I have heard demons beg God not to be sent back there.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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I believe there was a lake of fire existing in those long ago days. In fact I'm quite sure of it, but it was nothing supernatural, but a volcanic caldera full of magma....Something like that could not be understood by the nomadic goat herders of the day....So God did it!

Lake of fire.

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Old 01-29-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Very good! You've got a sense of humor.
Humor is fine . . . mockery is not. The overarching presumption seems to be that such a notion (other than volcanic calderas) is not plausible as an end game outcome. Perhaps this "lake of fire" notion in descriptions of the end . . . that seems so humorous to some . . . needs to be elaborated on just a bit more than my casual reference to dark matter.

The Apocalypse (Revelation) describes death and hell with reference to the lake of fire, 20:13,

. . . And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up the dead that were in them; and they were judged each one according to their works. And hell and death were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

As I stated . . . the only truly descriptive metaphor for our universe or any galaxy, is "a lake of fire." Literally, galaxies are enormous collections of stars (suns) that tunnel through the interstellar gas that has condensed to form each galaxy burning it up. Viewed from a distance, galaxies have the same appearance as whirlpools and eddies in water, except they are comprised of fire (suns).

Our universe is an infinite cycle of energy change. Various stages of organic life transmute inorganic matter into organic substance. This is further changed into higher order living substance. All this life energy has its origin in the raw energy of the suns. Therefore, life is merely an ordered transmutation of energy into higher forms.

Conceivably, some of the life energy procreated in each galaxy may be used to create new galaxies while the rest becomes part of the expanding background material (dark energy). R.L. Wing reminds us that our scientists would basically agree with this idea of life as the source for the universe,

. . . A new generation of physicists are now postulating that a universe cannot even come into being unless it contains the possibility of life.

Metaphorically, each solar system that produces life is a part of this continuous procreation. In fact, a symbolic picture of our own solar system could be as found in Apocalypse (Revelation) 12:1,

. . . And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon was under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And being with child, she cried out in her travail and was in the anguish of delivery.

In our solar system, to our knowledge, humankind is the only producer of life energy in the form of awareness. When we die, where the "flame" of our human consciousness "goes" depends primarily on the form that characterizes it. If (as I believe) the universe is God's consciousness . . . then consciousness that does not possess God's basic characteristics (not perfections) cannot become part of and share His consciousness. Not qualified as a cellular part of God consciousness, it is relegated to become part of the interstellar background of the galaxies (dark matter) which is continuously consumed by stars to produce more life energy in selected solar systems.

The idea of becoming part of the lake of fire that is a galaxy can hardly be pleasing to any aware life energy. However, all the unconscious life energy, which is the only kind that is supposed to end up there, would merely be changing form. There can be no pain without the pain sensors of a living physical body, so to all unaware life forms the change is inconsequential. The burning entails nothing more than a re-radiation of their energy as heat, light, and other forms.

The situation is quite different for life energy in the form of human consciousness. There is a form of pain exclusive to awareness, namely regret. But in this instance it is in no way a form of punishment. It is merely a natural component of the infinite creation cycle of the universe (God's continuous creation). It becomes a sort of self-imposed punishment that results from consciously working toward the wrong goals as a human being . . . an end God seeks to help us avoid.

Consciousness that strives to be a superior animal is probably only qualified to endure the fate of all unaware animals. The difference is that animals do not have our awareness and the fate would not seem like a punishment for them . . . self-imposed or otherwise. The real punishment of "hell-fire" is regret, the metaphorical "weeping and gnashing of teeth" of an unprofitable servant as described in Matthew 25:30,

. . . But as for the unprofitable servant, cast him forth into the darkness outside (dark matter?), where there will be the weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 01-29-2009 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Well as the old hippies used to say..."That's far out man" have another hit.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:45 PM
 
37,667 posts, read 25,387,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Well as the old hippies used to say..."That's far out man" have another hit.
Oh . . . I have hope for you, sanspeur . . . your meditations may yet reveal the truth of our oneness with a conscious universe . . . you never know. Have another hit . . .
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Oh . . . I have hope for you, sanspeur . . . your meditations may yet reveal the truth of our oneness with a conscious universe . . . you never know. Have another hit . . .
And don bolgart that J!
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by effie briest View Post
I knew you were an Jürgen Prochnow and "Das Boot" fan !!!
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I believe there was a lake of fire existing in those long ago days. In fact I'm quite sure of it, but it was nothing supernatural, but a volcanic caldera full of magma....Something like that could not be understood by the nomadic goat herders of the day....So God did it!

Lake of fire.
Interestingly, the reality of the 'Symbolism' of what the "Lake of Fire" actually means, as opposed to the Kool-Aid version espoused by those of Christendom who revel in the very concept of 'Hellfire Dogma', is in reality closer and more accurately what Atheists/Agnostics have always believed happens after death anyway. Let me explain.

Let's take one look at the occurence of the term "Lake of Fire" in the last bible book of Revelation. I've always asked those who are determined that there is such a place of torment and suffering as an eternal "HellFire & Damnation", to tell me what this verse means:
Revelation 20:15 - "Authorized King James Version"
Quote:
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Their answer every single time is always, "Well the "lake of fire" is HELL where bad people and non-believers go to!"

I tell them that their observation is interesting, but yet contradictory, especially in view of what is said in the preceding verse of 14. Let's read it together

Revelation 20:14 - "Authorized King James Version"
Quote:
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
It's obvious here that the "Lake of Fire" is in no way the same as HELL since both it and death are thrown into it. So what possibly could be meant by both death and hell being cast into the "lake of fire" ???

First off, remember that at the beginning of the book of Revelation, it is clearly stated that there would be the use of signs or symbolic illustrations to explain things. So again what could be meant by something, anything or anyone being thrown into this "lake of fire" ??? Here's a couple of real helpful important clues. Let's look at two scriptures that explain what the fate of death is!!!

Just a few verse beyond Revelation 20:14,15 we read this at Revelation 21:4 - "Authroized King James Version"
Quote:
"And God shall wipe out all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death , niether sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."
Interesting, so death becomes no more. Here's another scripture dealing with the same exact subject.
1 Corinthians 15:26 - "Authorized King James Version"
Quote:
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Interesting. So DEATH is finally once and for all time done away with, it becomes no more, or as the Authorized King James Version said, "The last enemy shall be destroyed is death" And how does this happen ??? Symbolically it is thrown into the "lake of fire".

Apparently this is also the same fate for the Bible place called "hades" (or Hell as the old archaic english lables it). As most Atheists I know have always known, the true meaning of the Greek word 'hades' has always meant the common grave of mankind. Not an eternal place of torment. Hell (the grave) , like death will be removed from mankind eternally by being symbolically speaking, destroyed in the "lake of fire". Also interesting is that Satan is also mentioned earlier as being thrown into this symbolic "lake of fire". Apparently, he is not allowed to go on living forever, but is permanently put out of action by being destroyed forever with permanent non-existance.

Revelation 21:15 - "Authorized King James Version"
Quote:
"And the devil that decieved them was cast into the lake of fire and brismstone, where the beast and false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Everyone knows that the Churches have always taught that the wicked will go to a firey Hell and be tormented forever. So what does that actually mean ??? What does it mean when the Bible says that Satan is "tormented for ever and ever" ??? Well Revelation 21:8 - (AKJV) also says that the "lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" means "the second death." So the Devil's being "tormented" there means that there is no relief for him, or in other words, he will be held under restraint for ever, actully in eternal death. The use of the word "torment" (from the Greek 'bas´sa nos) reminds us of the same word used at Matthew 18:34 where this same basic Greek word is used is applied to 'jailers' in several translations. Other translations use the word "tormentors", but have a footnote expressing the literal word meaning 'jailer'. So Satan is actually jailed for ever in death with no hope of ever existing again.

This also harmonizes with what is stated elsewhere in the Bible about what happens to a man when he dies. Again, this is something Atheists have always know anyway. Here's what the Bible says at
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 - "New International Version"
Quote:
"Man's fate is like that of animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [footnote, 'spirit'], man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place, all come from dust, and to dust all return."
There is absolutely no mention here of a firey hell. Humans simply return to dust - non-existance - when they die. So death is always opposite of life, not continued life.

In order to be literally "tormented" a person has to be conscious. So again, are the dead conscious ??? Once again the bible gives us the answer:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 - "Authorized King James Version"
Quote:
"For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not any thing, niether have they anymore reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
It is therefore impossible for the dead, who are unconscious or no longer know any thing, to experience any type of agony or "torment" anywhere.

For those who would continue to perpetuate the Satanic LIE of a Hellfire & Eternal Damnation with suffering and pain/misery , then the caution and warning of a symbolic eventuality of the "lake of fire"is for you.

As for Atheists/Agnostics ??? It would seem to be of no consequence for you any way, since your hope and belief is in returning to the dust when you die and a continued eternal non-existance with no hope of life ever.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:52 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,596,973 times
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
I knew you were an Jürgen Prochnow and "Das Boot" fan !!!
Dead wrong! But the author of the book lived in the ElCHING area, generously taken.
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