U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-23-2009, 06:26 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,047,446 times
Reputation: 284

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well, you can't convince people that Biblical verses speak of modern nations, because that hits to close to home. Most people would like to believe the Bible is nothing but a history book that does not impact their life today. Yet those descriptions could describe no one else. And the Bible clearly states, that most people would turn away from it's truth. So it is understandable why people would not embrace such a belief today.
Oh, but they DO describe describe someone else. What you refuse to believe, Campbell34, is the clear time restraints placed upon the entire book of Revelation. How much clearer can it be? Why don't you accept what the Bible clearly states instead accusing others of not doing so, Campbell34? Again, I caution all of us to be careful about accusing others of things of which we ourselves are guilty!

John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was then NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10). These verses set the entire historical context--first-century, pre-A. D. 70 Roman empire, particularly Jerusalem, "the city in which our Lord was slain"!

All fulfillments and all nations are found within that first-century world and in none other.

Sincerely and In Christ, Preterist
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-23-2009, 10:51 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,717,907 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Please, Cambell34! Where does the Bible mention nuclear attacks on America? Where does the Bible speak of modern-day Russia? You are reading these things into the Scriptures!

Preterist
The Bible states that the cities of Babylon would be destroyed in the day that the nations of the East would be able to raise up an army of 200 million men. The only time the nations of the east had the ability to put together an army of that size is in the very day we live. And back in 1960, China a nation in the east stated that they could raise up an army of 200 million men. They gave the same number which the Bible stated. According to the Bible, the cities of Babylon would all be destroyed in one hours time, this would of been impossible to do in the past, and only in our generation has such advanced weapons been developed that could destroy numerous cities all in one hours time. Also, it states that after this attack no one would ever be able to live in the land again, because the land will be polluted. It goes so far as to say, no one will even be able to return to the land to remove a stone for a foundation, becuase of that pollution. America is described in Jer. chapters 50, and 51, and Revelation 18. Russia is described in Ezekiel chapter 38.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-23-2009, 10:53 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,717,907 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Oh, but they DO describe describe someone else. What you refuse to believe, Campbell34, is the clear time restraints placed upon the entire book of Revelation. How much clearer can it be? Why don't you accept what the Bible clearly states instead accusing others of not doing so, Campbell34? Again, I caution all of us to be careful about accusing others of things of which we ourselves are guilty!

John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was then NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10). These verses set the entire historical context--first-century, pre-A. D. 70 Roman empire, particularly Jerusalem, "the city in which our Lord was slain"!

All fulfillments and all nations are found within that first-century world and in none other.

Sincerely and In Christ, Preterist
When in the first-century could the nations of the East raise up an army of 200 million men? When in the first century could the nations of the East destroy a city in one hours time?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 01:03 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,717,907 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Campbell34: It is YOUR interpretation that Jesus is equating a simple fig tree with the nation of Israel. Respectfully, Campbell34, it is you who has not learned the parable of the fig tree. It is you who refuses to do cross-referencing (a standard, indispensable principle of sound hermeneutics!). Luke adds in his gospel "and ALL the trees" (Luke 21). Clearly, Jesus was speaking to those very disciples with Him about things that were going to affect them in their lifetime. He said directly to THEM that THEY were to learn the parable of the fig tree. This is the parable--when the fig tree and "all the trees" (Luke) begin to bud, summer is NEAR. That is the parable. Plain and simple. Those very disciples with Jesus were to recognize the signs of His coming to them in that generation as easily as they recognized the signs of the coming of summer in the budding of the TREES!

It does NOT say "the generation that sees Israel become a nation," Campbell34. Are you putting words in Jesus' mouth? By the way, just how long is this generation that saw modern Israel become a nation going to last? It's been over 60 years now, Campbell34--60 years and counting. Soon it will be 70 and then 80 and then 90 and then 100. Soon it will no longer be proper to speak of a modern generation being the one to see Israel become a nation. Time will prove you wrong. It is you, Campbell34, who are misunderstanding the parable of the fig tree.

When Jesus said, "this generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place," He meant His contemporaries and no one else! That is the context! Again, let us be careful about accusing others of things lest we find ourselves guilty! I give this caution to myself as well!

In Christ, Preterist
If Jesus was telling His disciples all of this would happen in their lifetime. Why then did Jesus tell them that they would all be killed before it's fulfillment?

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:

And Jesus said the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in (ALL THE WORLD) for a witness unto all nations; (AND THEN SHALL THE END COME).
The gospel still has not reached all the world.

And verse 21 tells us that this tribulation will be the greatest tribulation of all time, what happen in the past was not the greatest tribulation of all time. Did you miss that part?

And verse 29 states that right after that tribulation the sun would go dark and the moon would not give her light, and the stars would fall from heaven. That never happened. When did the stars fall from heaven in the past?

Can you answer any of these questions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,115 posts, read 30,901,059 times
Reputation: 12254
I find no mention of Russia, or the United States in the bible, nor anything about an army of two hundred million. You seem to take a lot of license with the words of the bible, but leave the passages that fit your pessimistic viewpoint unchanged. Also you do realize that stars are distant suns and it would take some of them billions of years to reach earth...Just one colliding with the earth would obliterate it. Why do you hold such dark views?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 08:50 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,717,907 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I find no mention of Russia, or the United States in the bible, nor anything about an army of two hundred million. You seem to take a lot of license with the words of the bible, but leave the passages that fit your pessimistic viewpoint unchanged. Also you do realize that stars are distant suns and it would take some of them billions of years to reach earth...Just one colliding with the earth would obliterate it. Why do you hold such dark views?
The army of 200 million is spoken of in Revelation 9:16. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

The name Russia does not appear in the Bible, because the name Russia was coined after the Bible was written. Yet the land where ancient tribes once existed is spoken of there, and that identifies the land we know as Russia today. Grant Jeffrey does a pretty good job of explaining this in the link below.

Grant R. Jeffrey Ministries

The prophet only can describe what he sees, and what he saw as falling stars may not of been actual stars. They just may of appeared that way to him. If you lived 2,000 years ago and saw hundreds of missiles falling to the earth, you may of thought of them, as falling stars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,115 posts, read 30,901,059 times
Reputation: 12254
Yeah, I found it 200 million men mounted on horses. Strange way to fight a nuclear war.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
521 posts, read 794,163 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The prophet only can describe what he sees, and what he saw as falling stars may not of been actual stars. They just may of appeared that way to him. If you lived 2,000 years ago and saw hundreds of missiles falling to the earth, you may of thought of them, as falling stars.
You arnt by chance saying that a prohpet coould have falsely interepreted the world around him to discern some "proof" of an ultimate greater meaning/being?

You have detailed exactly why i will never take any prophets words at face value. They can only describe what they see, and as you have pointed out, they may be greatly missinformed.

It by furthering our understanding of the world that we become more adjusted and comfortable with it. We know now that falling stars are actually not stars at all, they are metorites and other debrie. By interepreting them as the mystical workings of the divine is at best misinformed, at worst willfully ignorant. To then go on and preach ones misguided interepretations as truth, and to sway people in to believeing your truth is a very dangerous practice indeed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 09:27 AM
 
995 posts, read 1,180,729 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yeah, I found it 200 million men mounted on horses. Strange way to fight a nuclear war.
Errr...Are there 200 million horses in the first place?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2009, 10:53 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,717,907 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yeah, I found it 200 million men mounted on horses. Strange way to fight a nuclear war.
Horses may of been the way the prophet conveyed the movment of men. Tanks and Trucks would not of been understood by someone from that time. Or, the vision may of appeared as an army that size, yet displayed in an ancient setting which he could better understand.
I do not believe nukes will be used at the start of this conflict. Jerusalem is Holy Ground to Muslims, so the idea of useing nukes would be unthinkable to them. Yet, I'm sure they will use them else where.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top