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Old 02-09-2009, 11:24 AM
 
8,743 posts, read 10,006,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yup, The evangelicals are always ranting against abortion laws, but ironically their beliefs are what is causing the high abortion rate in the US for the most part.

Perhap condom dispensers should be allowed in High schools the way the are here in Canada and many other countries. Kids are gonna have sex no matter what their parents say.
I agree with you. 100 percent.

Children are not going to listen to you at times. Sex might be one of the things they don't listen to you about. I would prefer they be safe if they will not listen instead of coming up to me and saying "Mom....I have something to tell you. I am pregnant."

Sanspeur, great post.

 
Old 06-16-2015, 05:37 AM
 
287 posts, read 215,430 times
Reputation: 717
My mother, before she retired, was the head nurse of the health clinic at a small, very conservative Christian college- about 2,000 students. Her biggest pet peeve was the VERY high percentage rate of unwanted pregnancies at the college. She insisted to the Board of Trustees that freshman orientation should include something, anything on sex education. She related many a story she heard from girls who came into the clinic because they missed their period and it was obvious that these girls did not have a clue. She heard everything from "I couldn't be pregnant because we had sex standing up" to "He said he wasn't old enough to make girls pregnant yet." The college refused her wishes to start some sort of sex education program "because it will only encourage kids to have sex." She secretly sent many a girl to Planned Parenthood, risking her job by doing so. She actually had one girl who absolutely refused she was pregnant because she said she was a virgin. She was on the delivery table at the hospital insisting she was just having a bad stomach ache.
 
Old 06-16-2015, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,605 posts, read 5,123,928 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Two thoughts about this statement:

1. Lets apply that mentality elsewere:

Why don't we provide male rapists with women...Kids are gonna have sex no matter what their parents say....

Why then the cry for gun controll from liberals, Kids are gonna join gans no matter what their parents say.....

What a waste of money for Duke University to make such a issue over the LaCrosse players who were falsely accused, Kids are gonna have sex no matter what their parents say.....

Why bother looking for plagiarism in tests, Kids are gonna cheat no matter what their parents say....

Why don't we abolish drunk driving laws, legal drinking age, Kids are gonna get drunk no matter what their parents say.....

Heck....why not really solve this thing once and for all.......get rid of parents...... Kids are not gonna listen no matter what their parents say


2.
The law doesn't change the attitude, it produces fear and\or resentment

What changes the attitude is.. "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law". Says who?......Galations 5:16-26

The problem is many who throw up their arms with such advice with....Kids are gonna have sex no matter what their parents say....are really not interested in solving the root problem because Kids are not gonna listen no matter what God says.
I'm a results guy--both physically and spiritually. If your teaching was from God then the results in those red states that preach so hard against premarital sex then the results should be fewer pregnancies not more. That isn't the case, is it? But facts have never dissuaded any fundamentalist from remaining on a socially destructive path--even one that harms their own children.

Comparing giving condoms to teens so they won't become victims of fundamentalist teaching to necrophilia and to removing other laws made for protection of the public is akin to me asking you to do the following---since fundamentalists' primary desire is to go to Heaven you could provide the nation and even the world a great service by going now. An entire church could take buses to a ledge and jump off lemming style. You would have no more sinners to contend with and you would, supposedly, gain your rightful place in Heaven.

That makes the same kind of sense as your comparison of teenage sex to these unrelated items.

You've made plenty of nonsensical judgmental posts on these threads, but this one is class A, top of the line, straight from the bowels of hell. Congratulations!! You are very good at one thing---unfortunately for all of us and especially for you it is the antithesis of the love of Jesus Christ.
 
Old 06-16-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,605 posts, read 5,123,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
It's interesting to me and always has been. Growing up in a 'Red State' but being raised by an entire family who was from a rather liberal 'Blue State' was always a little confusing for me - even as a teenager. Being in the situation that I was in, a 'Blue' at heart living in 'Red Land', I was constantly inundated with a kaleidoscope of different viewpoints and people.

I am still curious as to why I always managed to pick them out... Perhaps they picked me out; I'm not sure. Either way, all throughout the two and a half years I attended high school, I almost always, without fail, managed to pick up the girls who were the daughters of preachers, pastors, etc... They almost always grew up in very strict households where crosses were tacked with security to the wall. Pictures of Jesus adorned the walls and the giant family Bible was usually in a very visible place. For those unfamiliar, the 'Family Bible' is usually a Bible passed down from generation to generation and often has lineages as far back as a few centuries (depending on when the family came to the U.S.)

I suppose this is how I really and truly got to learn the Bible. I never had studied it prior to high school; I wasn't interested at all. Yet, after my first bad experience dating a girl in high school whose father demanded to know what religion I was and when I lied and said "Catholic" (despite my Atheism) he chased me out of the house and called me all sorts of names. Destined not to be ridiculed and embarrassed in that manner again, I quickly learned key catch-phrases, passages, and I studied a little bit about every fundamentalists' favorite thing - the end of the world (The Rapture - Oooohhhh Spooky!).

I did all of this for a reason. To put it mildly, the reason was because teenage males, at least this teenage male filled with unstoppable hormones knew that the quickest way to having any sort of sexual encounter was with the girls who were stowed away under the lock and key of the family Bible, the crosses on the walls and the raging lunatic fathers who hated my guts because I was 'Catholic' (*snicker* - if they only really knew) because their ignorance to the possible results of it made it far easier - not to mention the 'taboo factor'.

Now, I can't help but sit here and read through these threads at people who demand that preaching abstinence is the best policy. I'll tell you one thing. This "Blue State" male growing up in "Red Land" sure taught many of those young women how to put a condom on me. I even taught a few what a condom was and I had to explain how people get pregnant. So, go ahead, preach your 'abstinence only' thing and hide behind the crosses on your walls and your family Bibles because there's a teenage male just like me who is evolving his very game plan to work his way into your home and court your daughters. This I can guarantee.
Excellent post. You were fortunate to have liberal parents. I grew up all over this nation and across both oceans, but my family roots were in Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi (Biloxi) --and my family was redneck and spouted the same god and principles.

When I became a Christian I spouted the same fundamentalist garbage---for a score of years. But gradually, as I read the Bible more carefully and began to assess its primary message, God changed my heart. It boiled down to loving one's neighbor as oneself. Once one understands that, then he/she can promote Danish philosopher Soren Kierkegaard's recommendation to burn all the Bibles--they just get in the way of loving one's neighbor.

As an interesting aside, some sociology researchers have published a book (a few years old now) entitled "The Spirit Level," which has tied virtually every social ill in western society to income disparity. They compared nation to nation and in the America state to state. They used data from 176 studies from various countries to determine that the greater the income disparity between the top 20% of income and the bottom 20% of income. The more likely a nation (or state) is to have high rates of teen pregnancy, homelessness, lack of education, prison incarceration, longer terms of incarceration, violent crime, hunger among children, and even illness.

It's a fascinating study and Mississippi ends up at the top of the list in the United States for more than a few of these items. These researchers are British, and Great Britain trails only the U.S. For the amount of income disparity between economic levels.

It supports the idea that as the rich get richer and poor get poorer, more and more cultists begin appearing (like one who posted on this thread) claiming the answer is God. Eventually the disenfranchised arise to kill the rich and level the playing field---though only for a time. Think French Revolution.

You are correct in your illustration. Strict parenting encourages rebellion. Sooner or later one of the fundamentalist cults will begin calling for the stoning of disobedient children in order to obey that injunction found in Leviticus.
 
Old 06-16-2015, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 6,838,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I'm sorry, but placing dispensers in bathrooms, to me, is encouragement.

I'm not naive enough to think kids won't mess around, but I'm not going to buy them contraception and tell 'em to have a good time.
That's right - it's encouragement to practice safe sex if one is having sex.

By the sort of 'logic' above, seat belts and airbags encourage people to speed and drive recklessly.
 
Old 06-16-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,564 posts, read 3,137,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The problem is many who throw up their arms with such advice with....Kids are gonna have sex no matter what their parents say....are really not interested in solving the root problem because Kids are not gonna listen no matter what God says.
Well, take it from someone who is probably closer to my teen years than you are: It doesn't MATTER what the "root problem" is (assuming there even is one) because you are trying to fight one of the strongest biological urges of the human body.

Fighting the urge to have sex during your teen years is like trying to hold in a sneeze or a cough or holding your bladder for 6 or 8 years before finally being allowed to use a toilet.

It simply does not work. It will NEVER work. Sure, some teens will somehow muddle through their teen years without having any sex ... but most will not. The vast majority will not.

And whether or not you can accept reality or no, reality doesn't change. They're gonna have sex.

Your idea is like saying, "Well, if we take seat belts out of cars, and tell our kids to drive safe, there will never be another auto accident involving a teen driver."

Or perhaps it's like saying, "If we remove all of the smoke detectors from the house and simply tell our kids not to play with matches, they will be 100% obedient ... thus removing the need for a smoke detector."

Hell, let's get rid of motorcycle helmets, the lock-bars on amusement park rides, let's dump the life preservers overboard, let's dispense with all the safety gear worn by everyone from football players to welders.

Why Hell's Bells, if we get rid of ALL safety gear everywhere, accidents of all types will be completely eliminated and, barring disease, we will all live into our hundreds.

Right. RIGHT?

Because that's what you're saying. "Oh, let's just keep kids away from contraception because if they can have sex safely, they're going to have more sex. So, we better get rid of the safety equipment (contraceptives), give them a little lecture, and then send our darling kiddies who will never disobey me out into the world!"

Just like we should get rid of seat belts because people drive faster and more erratically when wearing them. People are more careless with fire now that we have smoke detectors. Because I bought a state-of-the-art security system, I'm going to leave all my doors and windows unlocked. Oh and yeah, because I'm wearing all of this padding in my football uniform, I'm going to try and tackle that freight train! Wooo!

Because that's what happens when you give people the tools to be safe. They just compensate for the safety by being twice as dangerous.

That's your logic. Such as it is.
 
Old 06-16-2015, 11:30 PM
 
12,491 posts, read 13,112,445 times
Reputation: 8900
here is what i did raising three sons:
basket of condoms out in plain sight in the bathroom, for them or any of their friends to use

mom talks to them using correct anatomical terms about what sex is (that is some of the best cold water there is, having mom talk about their penis)

show them photos of "this is a penis with a lesion on it from STDs which you catch having sex without a condom" (i love gory photos, because you can't UN-see them; again more cold water with mom-penis-lesion all connected)

tell them if you have a kid you are financially responsible for it even if you do not marry the girl, even if you never see her or the kid again, and your paycheck will be garnished by the state to support the kid for the next 23 years in the range of $2,000-4,000 per moth (more cold water because with boys they are at that age wanting to buy music, save for a car, buy computers)

yes it worked; no babies so far, and they are through high school and university. about the time they were juniors in high school one of them said "mom can we put the basket of condoms in the cupboard at least? we're getting tired of looking at them"

was this fun or comfortable for any of us? not particularly; but their dad totally baled and wouldn't talk to them about it. And my prime motivator is this: either your kids get solid useful sound advice from you their parent; or they will get mis-information from a bunch of their peers. Who is going to give your kids better tools to be safe and make wise choices, the 12-year old kid down the street or you?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-16-2015 at 11:39 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2015, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,605 posts, read 5,123,928 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
here is what i did raising three sons:
basket of condoms out in plain sight in the bathroom, for them or any of their friends to use

mom talks to them using correct anatomical terms about what sex is (that is some of the best cold water there is, having mom talk about their penis)

show them photos of "this is a penis with a lesion on it from STDs which you catch having sex without a condom" (i love gory photos, because you can't UN-see them; again more cold water with mom-penis-lesion all connected)

tell them if you have a kid you are financially responsible for it even if you do not marry the girl, even if you never see her or the kid again, and your paycheck will be garnished by the state to support the kid for the next 23 years in the range of $2,000-4,000 per moth (more cold water because with boys they are at that age wanting to buy music, save for a car, buy computers)

yes it worked; no babies so far, and they are through high school and university. about the time they were juniors in high school one of them said "mom can we put the basket of condoms in the cupboard at least? we're getting tired of looking at them"

was this fun or comfortable for any of us? not particularly; but their dad totally baled and wouldn't talk to them about it. And my prime motivator is this: either your kids get solid useful sound advice from you their parent; or they will get mis-information from a bunch of their peers. Who is going to give your kids better tools to be safe and make wise choices, the 12-year old kid down the street or you?
Your a helluva Mom!! Thanks for sharing a great story.
 
Old 06-17-2015, 01:46 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,925 posts, read 4,305,650 times
Reputation: 1157
Quote:
Originally Posted by deweyforprez View Post
My mother, before she retired, was the head nurse of the health clinic at a small, very conservative Christian college- about 2,000 students. Her biggest pet peeve was the VERY high percentage rate of unwanted pregnancies at the college. She insisted to the Board of Trustees that freshman orientation should include something, anything on sex education. She related many a story she heard from girls who came into the clinic because they missed their period and it was obvious that these girls did not have a clue. She heard everything from "I couldn't be pregnant because we had sex standing up" to "He said he wasn't old enough to make girls pregnant yet." The college refused her wishes to start some sort of sex education program "because it will only encourage kids to have sex." She secretly sent many a girl to Planned Parenthood, risking her job by doing so. She actually had one girl who absolutely refused she was pregnant because she said she was a virgin. She was on the delivery table at the hospital insisting she was just having a bad stomach ache.
I remember trying not to mention sex to this one kitten I once got, but it was almost as if sex was written into her DNA... She just kept wailing to be heard (by males?) and sticking up her booty all throughout the apartment. Also, I distinctly recall not mentioning to my german shepherd male the methods of how to hump, yet he figured it out anyway, and was soon humping away at the air above my mini-pincher... almost as if... lol
 
Old 06-17-2015, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
3,926 posts, read 2,732,924 times
Reputation: 1830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Well, take it from someone who is probably closer to my teen years than you are: It doesn't MATTER what the "root problem" is (assuming there even is one) because you are trying to fight one of the strongest biological urges of the human body.

Fighting the urge to have sex during your teen years is like trying to hold in a sneeze or a cough or holding your bladder for 6 or 8 years before finally being allowed to use a toilet.

It simply does not work. It will NEVER work. Sure, some teens will somehow muddle through their teen years without having any sex ... but most will not. The vast majority will not.
That is a wonderful description. That's how I'd describe it too, and I went through that exact experience





I am of salt and iron now because of that.


It can certainly be done...but it will seldom be done willingly. That's the important thing to remember.
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