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Old 02-03-2009, 01:53 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,165,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Nope, there are probably lots of other lifeforms out there, some which we may never perceive, that developed in the circumstances unique to their environment. Just because life on our planet has followed one path, doesn't mean there aren't other paths, or that our path is inherently superior to all other paths.
Gee, just like religions and gods and personal philosophies. Imagine that.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,134,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Nope, there are probably lots of other lifeforms out there, some which we may never perceive, that developed in the circumstances unique to their environment. Just because life on our planet has followed one path, doesn't mean there aren't other paths, or that our path is inherently superior to all other paths.
There is probably other "life" out there but it won't look like humans, cats, dogs, fish, etc. We're alive in the environment around us. Planet to planet is a differnt environment and if there is "life" there than it's probably not going to resemble anything like it is on earth.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Likewise, when a person truly grasps why they believe in chance, they will finally understand why the believers see more logic in the creator.

You don't believe in chance? I bet you won't jump off a high building because you know your chances of surviving are slim to none...or do you have faith that god has a greater purpose for you and you'll survive. Chance or probability is a measurable statistic based on the likelihood that an event will occur. It is used every day in our lives...to figure out our car insurance premiums...to create odds at horse races...to whatever you can think of...there is a probability attached.

The same can be said about earth. Though the probabilities are extremely low of such a situation occurring in the universe...we are here and not coincidentally.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,057 posts, read 30,844,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Likewise, when a person truly grasps why they believe in chance, they will finally understand why the believers see more logic in the creator.
With about 250 quintillion ( 250,000,000,000,000,000,000 ) stars in the universe, I'd say chances are very good that many of them have planets with life...Perhaps millions of them.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Brussels, Belgium
971 posts, read 1,507,629 times
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First, I'm going to contest the idea that our existence is proof of anything. Yeah, we're wonderful and incredibly complex. So are smoke patterns in the wind. It's arrogant to believe that the universe was created for us, as if we're somehow superior, "more important" than the rest of this (amazing) universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
proofs of the creator
2-The Earth's Distance from the Sun:
3-The Thickness of the Earth's Crust:
4-The Speed at which the Earth Revolves:
5-The Earth's Magnetic Field:
[...]
Do you know how many planets there is in the universe? A lot. So even if the conditions for life are very specific (which is hard to prove, by the way), chances are good that at least a few planets will meet them. If it hadn't been earth, it would probably have been somewhere else. As rifleman put it,
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman
the life forms evolved where and when they could, fitting in rather than having pre-requisites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
1-Gravity:
And how exactly do you know that life would be impossible with a different gravity? Sure, life as we know it wouldn't survive, but that doesn't mean a very different type of life couldn't appear.

Besides, we do not know why gravity is the way it is. You're assuming that gravity could have a different value - but we don't know that. Maybe gravity is as fixed as Pi. At this point, we just can't tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
computers : it's very powerfull system designed by humans , i can't imagine that computer with it's memmory and processors and techniques and design could have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences.
How about a clock? Surely it's also incredibly complicated and could not turn up by accumulating coincidences?
Well,
guess what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
It's interesting that this is the only planet ever discovered that has the right mix of environmental traits to sustain life, though. It would certainly SEEM that it was created for us.
Er, we've only been able to seriously study the planets in our little solar system - and even there, not closely enough to rule out the possibility of hidden life.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:32 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,031,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbird82 View Post
The same can be said about earth. Though the probabilities are extremely low of such a situation occurring in the universe...we are here and not coincidentally.

we are here because God wanted us to be here


And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You." He (All‚h) said: "I know that which you do not know." 2:30

the quran has an answer for any question

There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered. 6:38
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Swamps of Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,058,402 times
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So for creator, being all this and that, Earth was the only one place in this gigantic Universe, where he decided to place humans. With all due respect to his majestic powers, why didn't he populate the rest of the galaxy? What happened to Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and who knows how many other planets? Sure, he could have placed all kinds of different species all over the place, you know, to keep him company? It's quiet arrogant to say that Earth was "made" for us. With such magic that god possesses, it wouldn't be hard for him to move planets just a bit to the left or just a bit to the right to make it 'livable' for all his creations.
Silly, really.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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Everything in the universe works in its own way; when conditions changes, things work in other ways.

You just point out some of the ways the universe works. How does it prove God?
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:12 PM
 
1,366 posts, read 1,941,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
we are here because God wanted us to be here


And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You." He (All‚h) said: "I know that which you do not know." 2:30

the quran has an answer for any question

There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered. 6:38
Not my lord.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:12 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,999,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxolan View Post
First, I'm going to contest the idea that our existence is proof of anything. Yeah, we're wonderful and incredibly complex. So are smoke patterns in the wind. It's arrogant to believe that the universe was created for us, as if we're somehow superior, "more important" than the rest of this (amazing) universe.

Do you know how many planets there is in the universe? A lot. So even if the conditions for life are very specific (which is hard to prove, by the way), chances are good that at least a few planets will meet them. If it hadn't been earth, it would probably have been somewhere else. As rifleman put it,


And how exactly do you know that life would be impossible with a different gravity? Sure, life as we know it wouldn't survive, but that doesn't mean a very different type of life couldn't appear.

Besides, we do not know why gravity is the way it is. You're assuming that gravity could have a different value - but we don't know that. Maybe gravity is as fixed as Pi. At this point, we just can't tell.

How about a clock? Surely it's also incredibly complicated and could not turn up by accumulating coincidences?
Well,
guess what.

Er, we've only been able to seriously study the planets in our little solar system - and even there, not closely enough to rule out the possibility of hidden life.
i can't see youtube for now in my work , i will see it later

i can understand from your entire view that you think that these conditions ( as gravity or temperature..., etc ) are suitable for just the life we knows , which means that other conditions may made the life possible but with different life or different systems than we know , correct me if i misunderstood you

anyway i agree with you , but for me it dosn't change the fact that these conditions are compatible with our bodies and our requirment for the life we knows


after all , you can consider my post as to be my reasons from scientific point of view that there must be creator who created us and the universe
i'm really seek to know , what makes you athiests convinced that universe be made by chance . is there any scientific reasons ?
why we can't see more creatures beside us created by chance in front of our eyes ( it's just seems to me that according to you chances are very easy to be happen with creations )

if the nature succeeded to creates us and animals and fishes and insects .... etc by chance , and succeeded to create the plants to produce oxygen for us by chance , and it was by chance either that creatures produce CO2 for plant to live and then it found the sun which help her to grow , so every thing around us are created by chance , yet we can't proof it or witness new chances !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


in some of tradition of muslims , unbeliever asked scholar muslim about his proof for God existence , do you know how he answered him !

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said, "There is an incredibly strong fort, it has no doors, there is no way to get in. In fact, there is not even a hole in it. From outside it glows like the moon and from inside it shimmers like gold. It is sealed from all sides, matter of fact it is air tight. Suddenly one of its doors breaks down, a living thing with eyes and ears, a beautiful looking animal appears yelling and wandering all over. So is not there a creator who made it possible for life to take place in this secured and closed fort? And is not this Creator better than humans? This Creator has no limit." Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was referring to an egg which is closed from all sides

with another tradition
Imam Shafi`replied to the question in the following way, "The leaves of Toot (berries) are all but one. Each leaf tastes exactly the same. Insects, honey bees, cows, goats, and deer live off of it. After eating these the insects produce silk; bees produce honey; deer give musk (a special kind of scent), cows and goats deliver off-springs. Is this not clear evidence that one kind of leaf has so many qualities, and who created these qualities? It is the Khaliq (Creator) who we call Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala) Who is the Inventor and the Creator."


do you think that believers believe in God's existence blindness , or do they have at least convinced reasons (even if you don't agree with ) ?


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