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Old 02-03-2009, 05:44 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,997,283 times
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1-Gravity:
- If gravity were stronger, excessive ammonia and methane would collect in the Earth's atmosphere, which would have a most damaging effect on life.
- If it were weaker, the Earth's atmosphere would lose excessive quantities of water, making life impossible.

2-The Earth's Distance from the Sun:
- If this were any greater, the planet would grow very cold, the water cycle in the atmosphere would be affected, and the planet would enter an ice-age.
- If the Earth were any closer to the Sun, plants would burn up, the water cycle in the Earth's atmosphere would be irreparably damaged, and life would become impossible.-

3-The Thickness of the Earth's Crust:
- If the crust were any thicker, then an excessive amount of oxygen would be transferred to it from the atmosphere.
- If it were any thinner, the resulting amount of volcanic activity would make life impossible.

4-The Speed at which the Earth Revolves:
If this were any slower, the temperature difference between day and night would grow enormously.
-If it were any faster, then atmospheric winds would reach enormous speeds, and cyclones and storms would make life impossible.

5-The Earth's Magnetic Field:
- If this were any more powerful, very strong electromagnetic storms would arise.
- If it were any weaker, then the Earth would lose its protection against the harmful particles given off by the Sun and known as solar winds. Both situations would make life impossible.-

6-The Albedo Effect (Ratio between the amount of light the Earth reflects and the amount of light that is absorbed):
- If this were any greater, an ice-age would rapidly result.
- If it were any less, the greenhouse effect would lead to excessive warming. The Earth would first be flooded with the melting of the glaciers, and would then burn up.-

7-The Proportion of Oxygen and Nitrogen in the Atmosphere:
- If this were any greater, vital functions would be adversely accelerated.
- If it were any less, vital functions would adversely slow down.

8-The Proportion of Carbon Dioxide and Water in the Atmosphere:
- If this were any greater, the atmosphere would overheat.
- If it were any less, the temperature of the atmosphere would fall.

9-The Thickness of the Ozone Layer:
- If this were any greater, the Earth's temperature would fall enormously.
- If it were any less, the Earth would overheat and be defenceless against the harmful ultraviolet rays emitted by the Sun.

10-Seismic Activity (Earthquakes):
- If this were any greater, there would be constant upheaval for living things.
- If it were any less, the nutrients at the sea bottom would fail to spread into the water. This would have a damaging effect on life in the seas and oceans and all living things on Earth.-

11-The Earth's Angle of Tilt:
The Earth has a 23 degree angle of inclination to its orbit. It is this inclination that gives rise to the seasons. If this angle were any greater or any less than it is now, the temperature difference between the seasons would reach extreme dimensions, with unbearably hot summers and bitterly cold winters.

12-The Size of the Sun:
A smaller star than the Sun would mean the Earth would freeze and a larger star would lead to its burning up.

13-The Attraction between the Earth and the Moon:
- If this were any greater, the powerful attraction of the Moon would have extremely serious effects on atmospheric conditions, the speed at which the Earth revolves around its own axis and on the ocean tides.
- If it were any less, this would lead to extreme climate changes.-

14-The Distance between the Earth and the Moon:
- If they were just a little closer, the Moon would crash into the Earth.
- If they were any further, the Moon would become lost in space.
- If they were even a little closer, the Moon's effect on the Earth's tides would reach dangerous dimensions. Ocean waves would inundate low-lying areas. The friction emerging as a result of this would raise the temperature of the oceans and the sensitive temperature balance essential to life on Earth would disappear.
- If they were even a little further away, the tides would decrease, leading the oceans to be less mobile. Immobile water would endanger life in the seas, and the level of the oxygen we breathe would be endangered.

15-The Temperature of the Earth and Carbon-Based Life:
The existence of carbon, the basis of all life, depends on the temperature remaining within specific limits. Carbon is an essential substance for organic molecules such as amino-acid, nucleic acid and protein: These constitute the basis of life. For that reason, life can only be carbon-based. Given this, the existing temperature needs to be no lower than -20 degrees and no higher than 120 degrees Celsius. These are just the temperature limits on Earth.

16-The speed of the Big Bang explosion:
The balances established with the Big Bang, the instantaneous formation of the universe, are one of the proofs that the universe did not come into being by chance. According to the well-known Adelaide University professor of mathematical physics Paul Davies, if the rate of expansion that took place following the Big Bang had been just one in a billion billion parts different (1/1018), the universe could not have come into being.In his book A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking recognises this extraordinary precision in the universe's rate of expansion:
If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size.


These are just a few of the exceedingly sensitive balances which are essential for life on Earth to have emerged and to survive. Yet even these are sufficient to definitively reveal that the Earth and the universe could not have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:20 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,516,568 times
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Quote:
15-The Temperature of the Earth and Carbon-Based Life:
The existence of carbon, the basis of all life, depends on the temperature remaining within specific limits. Carbon is an essential substance for organic molecules such as amino-acid, nucleic acid and protein: These constitute the basis of life. For that reason, life can only be carbon-based. Given this, the existing temperature needs to be no lower than -20 degrees and no higher than 120 degrees Celsius. These are just the temperature limits on Earth.
all known life is currently based off of carbon, but there is speculation that others including silicon and boron may also be capable of being the chemical backbone of life. Also, i'm not sure where you get this idea that the earths limits are -20 to 120'C. I know of Russian cities which reach -50'C in the winter.

Quote:
these are sufficient to definitively reveal that the Earth and the universe could not have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences.
how are they sufficient?

May I ask, do you have a background in science?
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 1,997,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
all known life is currently based off of carbon, but there is speculation that others including silicon and boron may also be capable of being the chemical backbone of life. Also, i'm not sure where you get this idea that the earths limits are -20 to 120'C. I know of Russian cities which reach -50'C in the winter.
may be , but i think that they using stove or heaters and heavy cloths or don't go outside thier homes in this temperature to keep themselfs alive .

i'm talking about the nature life , when i say to you that the life is impossible in the moon , will you tell me that " i know that many astronauts ascend on the moon and didn't die " !!!!

Quote:
how are they sufficient?

May I ask, do you have a background in science?
honestly no , i cant say about myself that actually , but you can consider my knowledge under discussion , i have the ability to confess if i found myself wrong or be misinformed

do you know what is sufficient for me ?
computers : it's very powerfull system designed by humans , i can't imagine that computer with it's memmory and processors and techniques and design could have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences.
when i comprare the design of computer with the design of mind and how the mind works and process and controll the body and store great information in it's memmory ..........etc , so it will be normal thoughts when i asking about the designer of this mind .
i don't think that i need to have background of any kind of science to think about existence of God


afterall spindle
i didn't give you 16 points to pick up one of them and using the probability concept with it
my intends is to thought about the probability for all of these points to unite in the same time in this planet with this accurate design to cause the capability of life in it . (yet i didn't talk about probability of creation to be created in the same manner within this universe )
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,100,313 times
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Talking "Changes... thinkin about Changes " Barak Obama, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
all known life is currently based off of carbon, but there is speculation that others including silicon and boron may also be capable of being the chemical backbone of life. Also, i'm not sure where you get this idea that the earths limits are -20 to 120'C. I know of Russian cities which reach -50'C in the winter.

how are they sufficient?

May I ask, do you have a background in science?
elwill, you pose some interesting questions but in every single question/case you've come at this using a totally backwards logic. I appreciate your honest questions, but I think a more scientific approach would gain you a better understanding.

Let's say for a moment that life began and evolved (speciated) here on Earth. The Earth's parameters weren't pre-designed within strict limits and then the elements of life said "Oh Yeah! This is THE PLACE! Hope nothing changes, or we're in big trouble!"

Rather, because of the conditions, life was able to occur. It developed under the conditions that were present, and it slowly adapted as they slowly changed. Earth found it's balance point (gravity versus centripetal force); the oxygen and other chemical constituent levels existed first, and the life forms evolved where and when they could, fitting in rather than having pre-requisites.

The thickness of the earth's crust and it's magnetic field, are all consequences of it's density, it's geological constituent parts, and the laws of physics as discovered and explained by Newton.

The albedo (reflectance) effect, in fact, DOES vary significantly with greenhouse gases, solar output changes, time of year, etc.

The Earth's magnetic field has similarly changed in both strength and location of its poles, sometimes dramatically, without total loss of life on the planet. Through the ability to evolve through adaptation, organisms that could, did, and are here today.

The wind velocities on Jupiter are dramatically different than here on Earth. Strictly by our human standards, they are rather inhospitable, yes? But are you willing to state, categorically, that we will NEVER find the possibility of some form of life there? Things develop / adapt / evolve in the conditions they are presented with, as we did here.

A good line from the movie Jurassic Park I: "Life finds a way"

Please.. be careful in making categorical statements (As in "The Earth is Flat", "Planes can never exceed the speed of sound or they'll explode" or "Evolution is just a theory!" or "Computers are just a passing fad!" , etc. It can be mighty embarrassing later, right?

In all of your example cases, you have it exactly backwards. Your idea assumes that everything we observe now was pre-designed, then an appropriate planet "ordered up" and delivered, and the new organisms were deposited onto a perfect and unchanging world. And then you suggest that any changes, even minor, to this perfect but stable world would result in total annihilation.

To your point and quote from Stephen Hawking, yep, it's possibly true (though he only speculates, after all, he's not God!). Perhaps if things had been different at the seconds after The Big Bang, none of this would be here, and we'd not be debating. Again though, we weren't here first; the conditions of our universe were. We just took advantage of them as best we could!

Perhaps, though, you feel that we should all praise God for his wonderous design, and simultaneously ask him for our salvation by keeping things stable here?

In fact, again, we have a lot of proven evidence of ice ages with vastly different global climatology, and yet organisms adapted, their geno- and pheno-types changed, and they persisted. As conditions moderated, they also changed; we absolutely know there were wooly mammoths in Alaska (I have one of their tusks in my den right now) but they and their elephant cousins are no longer there. We also know T-Rexs and Mega-brontosauri were here (we have their million year old fossil bones!), yet they couldn't adapt to a very rapid (i.e.: instantand catastrophic climatic change (via a chance meteorite impact). But the smaller rodents and insects could, hence mice, spiders, cockroaches, weasels, lions, penquins, grizzly bears, chimps and finally, voila, us!

Things change, often dramatically. Death of everything does not automatically ensue!

BTW, I, as a long-ago Arctic researcher, can attest to being outside (yes, I had a parka on, but nonetheless..) when the temp was a measured -55˚C. My research associate later worked in Antarctica, and recorded a -70˚C day where he worked outside. (This is without wind chill influence).

We designed parkas because our minds evolved the ability to think ahead, plan, speculate and fabricate things with our nice opposable thumbs.

Quite the little evolutionary advantage, wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the interesting post, BTW.

Last edited by rifleman; 02-03-2009 at 12:21 PM.. Reason: typos
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:15 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,161,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
15-The Temperature of the Earth and Carbon-Based Life:
The existence of carbon, the basis of all life, depends on the temperature remaining within specific limits. Carbon is an essential substance for organic molecules such as amino-acid, nucleic acid and protein: These constitute the basis of life. For that reason, life can only be carbon-based. Given this, the existing temperature needs to be no lower than -20 degrees and no higher than 120 degrees Celsius. These are just the temperature limits on Earth.
There is sealife that flourishes at volcanic vents underwater, at temperatures up to 400deg C.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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Now, now, elwill...you can lead an atheist to proof...but you can't make 'em think.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,131,081 times
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Proof of what? All that was presented was a bunch of "if, than" scenarios. It doesn't prove anything.

I can do that too.

If I won the lottery, I'd be rich.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:41 PM
 
1,366 posts, read 1,938,248 times
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Now, now, elwill...you can lead an atheist to proof...but you can't make 'em think.

I didn't see any proof. What I read is there must be a god because the odds are too great for life to exist for there not to be. Are you saying you understand everything about our universe?

This argument doesn't work for me because there are billions of star systems so the odds are that a similar planet to ours exists elsewhere as well. People tend to believe we must be here because of god since we're on a planet that beat these extroardinary odds. But the reason we're here is because we did.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:46 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,922,674 times
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Originally Posted by jbird82 View Post
I didn't see any proof. What I read is there must be a god because the odds are too great for life to exist for there not to be. Are you saying you understand everything about our universe?

This argument doesn't work for me because there are billions of star systems so the odds are that a similar planet to ours exists elsewhere as well. People tend to believe we must be here because of god since we're on a planet that beat these extroardinary odds. But the reason we're here is because we did.

As I said....

How you can believe in omnipotent chance over an omnipotent creator is mind-boggling to me. The fact that the universe had a beginning proves that there was a creator. We all believe in cause/effect...unless it points to a God.
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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The OP makes it seem as though this planet was created to sustain our existence. But, maybe, life on this planet formed according to the given conditions.
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