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Old 02-06-2009, 05:45 AM
 
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So, what is it?

Some have marketed religion as moral centers. One thread about "sin" on Christianity forum got me thinking.

The thread starter was searching through religious scriptures to find answers for what level of adultery constitutes a "sin", and what level of adultery constitutes an "error". He was lost. I argued, "why not think about how your wife would feel about your adultery, and how much you care."

It seems to me your own conscience works too, and even better than those scriptures.

Then, in what situation, religion works better on moral issues and your own conscience can not take care?
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:16 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,636 posts, read 3,730,638 times
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Good Question

Then, in what situation, religion works better on moral issues and your own conscience can not take care?

Religion has , for centuries, attempted to monopolize a "moral compass" which is thought to govern mankind. Now while statistics and trends show that religion and morality Do Not Go hand in hand as some might assume, your question poses an answer that reaches the fundamental flaw of religion.
To answer, religion must, above all else, must first prioritize the sanctity of human life above all else.
Few religions do this. And one reason where Christianity, for example, fails in this regard is through the concept of Sin. Sin is a man-made concept, created by humans as a way to explain seperation from God. By focusing the belief system first on Sin, seperation from God and redemption etc, Christianity has allowed the issue of Human Rights to become non-existant, citing "God's rights" over Human righs any time.
Certainly the Bible does not help with this: The Biblical God is a very malignant and vengenful entity, one who "looks like a man" , favors one race over another, destroys anyone and their children that He does not like, endorses slavery, genocide and shows No Regard for human rights or Human Life. THis entity in the old testament evolved out of the worship of the a pantheistic order, which is lost in Old Testament translations but eventually evolved into the figure of Yahweh
With the advent of Christianity, which arose out of a Judaeistic tradition, we see a blending of Mirthaism and some influence of Egyptian mythology
The point is, this diety and this religion were invented by people who lived in a time when Human rights were not a topic of the day; when slavery, oppression and a need to survive anything from marauding Barbarians to supernatural curses which caused disease were the common concern of the day.
SO IF we look to the Biblical Deities for Moral Issues, we have to go back to asking ourselves if Slavery, crucifixitions and mental bondage ARE the moral we need ?

Clearly, we need a guide, but that guide must be for the sanctity of human life first.
Religions originating from the Abrahamic Traditions neither endorse nor encourage this.
SO in that case, yes, religions fail.

Do we really need to follow a book (or books) which order us to go out and kill anyone who does not agree with us? NO That is Barbarianism and Anarchy at work. And we in the 21st Century do not want or need that.

Some will argue that without religion, there is no moral balance. Let me point out briefly that is not true, and one of many proofs of that is the highest crime rate in the USA exists in and within the area called the "Bible Belt"
Again, one would expect with the heavy hand of religion in these areas to see less crime, but FBI and Local statistics prove otherwise.

One might suggest that those within a religious system are immune to crime as they are guided by a moral code; yet the overwhelming evidence of everything from sexual abuse to religious abuse proves otherwise.

I would suggest this: Get a copy of the state/federal penal code and read it. It is not that complicated. Live within it.
But above all else, respect the life and the sanctity and the rights of every human you ever meet. Don't justify religion or anything else as a means for genocide or the taking of another life. Respect that others will have different philosophies than you because their experiences in life are different from yours. Accept and respect that (You don't have to totally agree with it, just tolerate it) And move on.
That is something greater than any religion we have can offer
(Except maybe Buddhism)
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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Reps to you, Large cat...and welcome to the forum.!
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
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Never, people don't some bronze age book to tell the how to think and act morally. Also, many of the 'morals' in scripture are archaic and no sane person would follow them(ie slavery, genocide, stoning the adultress, stoning the disobedient child, homophobia etc.)
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:51 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 4,450,242 times
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People have a tendency to follow the law by the letter but not the spirit. I'm sure the people of the time had their best intentions when they wrote the laws thousands of years ago but rules of the past weren't meant to deal with situations of the present. It's in these cases where the religious should use common sense.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:58 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
So, what is it?

Some have marketed religion as moral centers. One thread about "sin" on Christianity forum got me thinking.

The thread starter was searching through religious scriptures to find answers for what level of adultery constitutes a "sin", and what level of adultery constitutes an "error". He was lost. I argued, "why not think about how your wife would feel about your adultery, and how much you care."

It seems to me your own conscience works too, and even better than those scriptures.

Then, in what situation, religion works better on moral issues and your own conscience can not take care?
There are no situations where religion works better than one's own conscience. People generally use their own conscience to pick and choose out of the bible. The ones that let religion override their own values are the crazy ones who do things like kill their kids.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:32 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,901,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
So, what is it?

Some have marketed religion as moral centers. One thread about "sin" on Christianity forum got me thinking.

The thread starter was searching through religious scriptures to find answers for what level of adultery constitutes a "sin", and what level of adultery constitutes an "error". He was lost. I argued, "why not think about how your wife would feel about your adultery, and how much you care."

It seems to me your own conscience works too, and even better than those scriptures.

Then, in what situation, religion works better on moral issues and your own conscience can not take care?


It's easy to push the conscience aside and ignore it.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,959,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW123 View Post
So, what is it?

Some have marketed religion as moral centers. One thread about "sin" on Christianity forum got me thinking.

The thread starter was searching through religious scriptures to find answers for what level of adultery constitutes a "sin", and what level of adultery constitutes an "error". He was lost. I argued, "why not think about how your wife would feel about your adultery, and how much you care."

It seems to me your own conscience works too, and even better than those scriptures.

Then, in what situation, religion works better on moral issues and your own conscience can not take care?
"This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart..."
Romans 2:15

Although this is a very simplistic translation, it would seem your onto something.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,037 posts, read 30,676,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It's easy to push the conscience aside and ignore it.
That may be true for you, but certainly not for me.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:24 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
It's easy to push the conscience aside and ignore it.
That is the moral of the story of Abraham nearly sacrificing his son, isn't it? Put aside your moral values to obey?
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