U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-06-2009, 01:00 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,910,914 times
Reputation: 409

Advertisements

I don't mean to be condescending. But if the larger context I just don't see how you can get the ideas you present.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-06-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,428 posts, read 29,579,247 times
Reputation: 29947
Hebrews 9:12 "Once for all time He took blood into that Most Holy Place, not the blood of goats and calves. He took His own blood, and with He secured our salvation forever".

Hebrews 9:22 "In fact, we can say that according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified by sprinkling with blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 03:44 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,379,818 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
In OT times the priest would lay his hands on the lamb and "transfer" the sins to that lamb. That's where the term "scapegoat" comes from, I've been told.

If the lamb had sins of it's own, it couldn't take on the sins of others. Likewise, if Jesus had sin of his own, his death would merely be payment for his own sin instead of our's.
But why? Sins are not tangible things that can be transferred. And if they are, why does God need them to be transferred to an innocent creature who then has to suffer for something it didn't do? Why can't he just forgive?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,422,672 times
Reputation: 5442
Logic wrote:
Quote:
But why? Sins are not tangible things that can be transferred. And if they are, why does God need them to be transferred to an innocent creature who then has to suffer for something it didn't do? Why can't he just forgive?
That's a good point. It's seems like they're saying that somebody has to suffer if a sin was committed and it doesn't necessarily matter who it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,317,844 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
But why? Sins are not tangible things that can be transferred. And if they are, why does God need them to be transferred to an innocent creature who then has to suffer for something it didn't do? Why can't he just forgive?
If God just forgive, he is breaking his own Law. Since the beginning of time the punishment for sin is death and we are all condemned to die. God in all his mercy has to sacrifice his son to take on all our sins as a solution. To change the rule is so human. How would you feel when people in power change the law to accommodate their family and cronies?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:33 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,801,766 times
Reputation: 771
Wow, different plate, same hate.

I think both Kamps (Religious & Secular) are to blame for the sorry condition our world finds itself in today. Maybe this interesting video is something that can illustrate where and how all this world's religious and secular irresponsible leadership has brought us to at mankind's current situation. Sad thing is that the same exact flaws have often spilled into this forum.

Whatever

We Didn't Start The Fire
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:34 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,026,461 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Logic wrote:

That's a good point. It's seems like they're saying that somebody has to suffer if a sin was committed and it doesn't necessarily matter who it is.
is this logical or fair ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:39 PM
BST
 
Location: Powell, TN
451 posts, read 1,021,077 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Logic wrote:

That's a good point. It's seems like they're saying that somebody has to suffer if a sin was committed and it doesn't necessarily matter who it is.
You're not far off.

In the Christian faith, death is the consequence for sin. God shows his just side by passing judgment...and in the Jewish tradition the atoning blood wash shed by a sacrificial animal.

But also in the Christian faith, there is forgiveness. Jesus died the sacrificial death and God accepts His suffering as sufficient to cover all of us.

In short, God intervened on your behalf - out of love - to satisfy the justice that He requires. There's a Bible verse that says "God demonstrates His love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:57 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,379,818 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
If God just forgive, he is breaking his own Law. Since the beginning of time the punishment for sin is death and we are all condemned to die. God in all his mercy has to sacrifice his son to take on all our sins as a solution. To change the rule is so human. How would you feel when people in power change the law to accommodate their family and cronies?
OK, so God can create a law that he cannot break. I guess that solves the riddle and God actually can microwave a burrito so hot that even he could not eat it.

But now I must ask this question, why would God create a law that requires innocent creatures to be punished for another's sins? Why would he not just create a law that says he can forgive anyone who asks without such a brutal practice?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2009, 04:57 PM
 
1,186 posts, read 2,026,461 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by BST View Post
Jesus died the sacrificial death and God accepts His suffering as sufficient to cover all of us.
."
that means i can cheat and steal and just worry about the police and i do not need to worry about God because i am already been covered
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top