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Old 02-06-2009, 05:13 PM
BST
 
Location: Powell, TN
451 posts, read 1,021,452 times
Reputation: 182

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
that means i can cheat and steal and just worry about the police and i do not need to worry about God because i am already been covered

If I mailed you a gift, but you marked it "return to sender" - did you receive my gift? Obviously not. There is the step of acceptance on the part of the believer.

The marks of those who are believers would be the persons who no longer cheat, steal, or break laws. We don't do it to merit God's favor - we do it out of gratitude for the favor He has shown us, and by faith we accept.

Forgiveness is not an open invitation to lawlessness. Hinting that it somehow is...is a huge misrepresentation of faith in Christ. Not to worry, Christians do it to each other more often than people of other faiths or of no faith.

There have been two paths of thought in Christendom for 2000 years - grace vs. works - nothing new happening on the Christianity thread that hasn't been debated for a couple of centuries.

Jesus Christ offers you confidence that when you face Allah, the scales will be tipped in your favor. He will be your advocate, if you let Him. The life you lead in this world would be one of devotion and love for the one who has already secured your status alongside the martyrs.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,586,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
that means i can cheat and steal and just worry about the police and i do not need to worry about God because i am already been covered
If that's what you think Christians life is like, you are wrong. Because I love God and have a relationship with Him, I want to bring honor to Him by the way I life my life.
2 Corinthians 5:17 "What this means is that those who become Christians become a new persons. They are not the same anymore, for the old life is gone, a new life has begun"

Yes I still sin but God is faithful and just to forgive me.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,938,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Logic wrote:

That's a good point. It's seems like they're saying that somebody has to suffer if a sin was committed and it doesn't necessarily matter who it is.
Nietzsche had a similar thought, that the innocent must be punished for the sins of the guilty. He added that it's absurd.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,489 posts, read 1,277,308 times
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I've never understood the whole concept of having to kill (sacrafice) something to appease an angry god. Growing up that is what I was taught....but it just never made any sense to kill something innocent to help yourself....seems kind of cruel, senseless and selfish to me.

Why the heck would god grant you redemption because you killed an innocent animal just minding it's own business seems like a bunch of hooey to me.

I remember in my youth reading about some of the earlier cultures that believed in all these gods some of whom were nasty, some kind etc...and thinking how crazy that was. Well if you look at some of the things we believe in the name of religion they seem kind of crazy too. God of love....but grab something innocent and kill it to keep god happy ???
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:03 PM
BST
 
Location: Powell, TN
451 posts, read 1,021,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
....seems kind of cruel, senseless and selfish to me.

And that's why Jesus died. Mankind no longer has to do the sacrificial ceremonies - animals don't have to die - God put an end to the bloodshed with His own benevolent act.

Now it's spiritual/internal/cognitive 'death' of the old way of thinking/being/acting and a 'resurrection' or rebirth of the new way. Lot's of scriptures in the Bible express it along these lines.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,427,020 times
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BST wrote:
Quote:
And that's why Jesus died. Mankind no longer has to do the sacrificial ceremonies - animals don't have to die - God put an end to the bloodshed with His own benevolent act.
Are you suggesting that before Jesus died that it was necessary for animals or innocent human beings to die but somehow the death of Jesus changed all of that? Just wondering.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,489 posts, read 1,277,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BST View Post
And that's why Jesus died. Mankind no longer has to do the sacrificial ceremonies - animals don't have to die - God put an end to the bloodshed with His own benevolent act.

Now it's spiritual/internal/cognitive 'death' of the old way of thinking/being/acting and a 'resurrection' or rebirth of the new way. Lot's of scriptures in the Bible express it along these lines.

Ok, If I accept your statement as true for the moment, did god change from his previous ways then ? I was also taught that god never changes....yet you're saying that he used to demand we kill innocent animals...now since his son died it's all ok.

So why did god demand innocent bloodshed (animal sacrifice) in the "OT" ? Why would killing an animal make your sins all ok ? It just seems crazy to me. So if somebody sins against me shall I ask for an animal sacrifice ? please explain.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,229 posts, read 2,875,955 times
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I am not sure but I believe the death was required because that is the wage of sin. And in order for Jesus to answer for our sins, he was made to pay the ultimate price. By offering himself, the son of God made himself an ever lasting example of kindness, forgiveness, and selflessness. Knowing he was the son of God, and knowing that as such he could pretty much do whatever he wanted to do, he instead chose to offer up his life so that we could be given a chance for salvation.

I guess that's why we are called God's children, because I would make the same sacrifice to save my own. Just my thoughts on the matter. I could of course be wrong.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:17 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,380,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
I am not sure but I believe the death was required because that is the wage of sin. And in order for Jesus to answer for our sins, he was made to pay the ultimate price. By offering himself, the son of God made himself an ever lasting example of kindness, forgiveness, and selflessness. Knowing he was the son of God, and knowing that as such he could pretty much do whatever he wanted to do, he instead chose to offer up his life so that we could be given a chance for salvation.

I guess that's why we are called God's children, because I would make the same sacrifice to save my own. Just my thoughts on the matter. I could of course be wrong.
God makes the rules, so why did he make innocent suffering the "wage of sin"?
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,430 posts, read 29,586,943 times
Reputation: 29947
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
Ok, If I accept your statement as true for the moment, did god change from his previous ways then ? I was also taught that god never changes....yet you're saying that he used to demand we kill innocent animals...now since his son died it's all ok.

So why did god demand innocent bloodshed (animal sacrifice) in the "OT" ? Why would killing an animal make your sins all ok ? It just seems crazy to me. So if somebody sins against me shall I ask for an animal sacrifice ? please explain.
No God did not change and you're right He doesn't change. The OT scarifies were a foreshadow of things to come. This was His plan before He even made the world that Jesus would die on the cross for our sins. Because Jesus died once for all, He brought the sacrificial system to an end.
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