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Old 02-09-2009, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,032,499 times
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It is my understanding that if Satan had not come along and posed the challenge, and they had not succumbed to it, they would have had eternal life, not immortality, which is the ability to have life and sustain life within ones self. Humankind would never have that, they would always rely on the Creator for life.

They were sinless to begin with and as such would have continued without growing old or dying. Otherwise, why say it was the sin that caused death? Why say that Jesus needed to pay the price for sin and release mankind from bondage to sin.

If it was God's plan to have them sin and unleash all the suffering that mankind has experienced for 1000's of years, then he is one sick and twisted God, if he exists at all, which I doubt very much.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:07 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,438 posts, read 29,618,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
ILNC wrote:

Please tell me there won't be barking dogs at three in the morning.
Hey Montana are asking because you just got saved??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thank you for clarifying that. I guess we are understanding the word "soul" differently. So what do you believe the criteria for going to Heaven is? Does everyone who accepts Jesus as his Savior go to Heaven? Does denomination make any difference?
Jesus said He is the only way to Heaven, no denomination makes no difference, the difference is Jesus, what people do about Jesus. Asking Him into your heart, forgive you of your sins, that's the way to Heaven, it's all about Jesus, not church, not religion, not denomination.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:47 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,598,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Animals do not have a soul.


According to the Bible they do...


Ge 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that *hath life, (#5315)and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Ge 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is *life, (5315)I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so

#5315 nephesh=soul
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,444,938 times
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ILNC wrote:
Quote:
Please tell me there won't be barking dogs at three in the morning.

Hey Montana are asking because you just got saved??
No, I'm still my regular heathen self.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,438 posts, read 29,618,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
[/b]

According to the Bible they do...


Ge 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that *hath life, (#5315)and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Ge 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is *life, (5315)I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so

#5315 nephesh=soul
Well of course they have life, they are alive, but the Bible does not say they have a soul.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,973,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
Ok, i like that explanation somewhat better. Fundamental argument from certain Christians is that if A&E never ate from TofK, they would have never die and would live for ever and ever, in other words, they would be immortal. But then why TofLife is presented? If A&E had a chance to eat from TofLife, would they become immortal? But they have never had a chance to eat from TofL.

My argument is that immortality doesn't exist, nor ever did, even in biblical times. Christians blame Eve for eating the fruit, thus, causing all of us death, instilling fear or hell, or joy of heaven, which doesn't exist (in my book)
So, who are we to blame, really? Anyone? Eve? Serpent? Who? Do we have to blame anyone for something that is naturally unavoidable, like death? Why do we have to ask for forgiveness and for what reason we need to be forgiven?
Hey now, wait just a minute!

I get it, your really just trying to take the blame off eve.

It was all HER fault.

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Old 02-11-2009, 10:05 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,598,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Well of course they have life, they are alive, but the Bible does not say they have a soul.
When I read a remark such as the one above I have to ask...don't you know how to read?

Having said that I will also say the word 'soul' is nephesh is used interchanably with creature, life, soul, etc., but they're all the same #5315.

I only posted 2 Scriptures to show it so now I'll post a bunch more:

Gen.1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living *creature (#5315 soul) after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living *soul.(#5315)

Gen. 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living *creature, (soul#5315) )that was the name thereof.

Gen. 9:10 And with every living *( soul#5315 ) creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth

9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living *creature (soul #5315 )that is with you, for perpetual generations

9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living *(soul #5315)creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:10 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,262,222 times
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The belief that humans possess an immortal "soul"...an invisible spirit that is separate from the physical body, contradicts the punishment that God bestowed on the human family when Adam and Eve disobeyed.

God clearly said they would die. Satan was the one who started the lie that they would live on...obviously they died. What better way to perpetuate that lie than the "immortal soul".

As to why animals die....good question! I'll be thinking about that. According to the bible account though, humans have been in existence for roughly 7k years. There are fossil records that show animals were dying long before man came into existence. I can't claim to know what animals think or know, but in Eccl 3:11 it says that God put time indefinite into our hearts...not animals. Humans were created differently than animals, I suppose.
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,043 posts, read 30,793,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
The belief that humans possess an immortal "soul"...an invisible spirit that is separate from the physical body, contradicts the punishment that God bestowed on the human family when Adam and Eve disobeyed.

God clearly said they would die. Satan was the one who started the lie that they would live on...obviously they died. What better way to perpetuate that lie than the "immortal soul".

As to why animals die....good question! I'll be thinking about that. According to the bible account though, humans have been in existence for roughly 7k years. There are fossil records that show animals were dying long before man came into existence. I can't claim to know what animals think or know, but in Eccl 3:11 it says that God put time indefinite into our hearts...not animals. Humans were created differently than animals, I suppose.
Uh, you seem to be ignoring the thousands of fossil records of humans that came into existence long before you think they did....

An international team of scientists working in Ethiopia's Afar Depression recently announced the discovery of hominid fossils that belong to the oldest human ancestor ever found. The fossils which date back between 5.2 and 5.8 millions years ago, are significant because they indicate that the ancestors of present-day humans split evolutionary company with apes more than 5 million years ago.

Lucy - Fossils of Oldest Human Ancestor Discovered in Ethiopia
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:09 AM
 
810 posts, read 1,262,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Uh, you seem to be ignoring the thousands of fossil records of humans that came into existence long before you think they did....

An international team of scientists working in Ethiopia's Afar Depression recently announced the discovery of hominid fossils that belong to the oldest human ancestor ever found. The fossils which date back between 5.2 and 5.8 millions years ago, are significant because they indicate that the ancestors of present-day humans split evolutionary company with apes more than 5 million years ago.

Lucy - Fossils of Oldest Human Ancestor Discovered in Ethiopia
Interesting article.
The speciments are recognizable as early hominids and distinguishable from early chimpanzees, because some of their teeth characteristics are shared exclusively with later hominids. In addition, the bones have a distinctive feature found only in primates that walk upright on two feet, unlike apes, which do not walk bipedally.

The first of the eleven specimens (which include a jawbone, several hand and foot bones, arm bone fragments and a partial collar bone)...

So, "some teeth", "a jawbone", "several hand and foot bones", "fragments", and "a partial collar bone" PROVES that these are the remains of a human ancestor and not some other extinct animal species?

This thread isn't about evolution, so I don't want to hijack it.
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