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Old 02-10-2009, 09:06 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,841,912 times
Reputation: 135

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God learns to be perfect.
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
New Testament Hebrews5 8

Yes, even though Jesus was perfect, he was still able to learn, and grow. One way to define perfect would be a being who eternally progresses. Perfection then is always in evolution.
The suffering of Jesus, as ours, comes from sinning. From knowing that we have not hit the mark.

Before I was saved, (none are ever lost), I had to recognize that our world and universe is perfect. Perfect while evolving to a higher form of perfection continuously. As the U S constitution says, a more perfect union. This term I apply to us. Perfect yet evolving to a more perfect understanding of reality and God.
This is a hard concept to grasp and I like to use a baby as a model.
A baby is born as perfect as it can be at that point in time. It grows along with his/her perfection, even with sin, blemish or physical deformity, grows along with it, yet never loses it.
We then are all as perfect as possible at this point in time.
Our duty then is to recognize this state and further our knowledge of good and evil. This, and when possible, reproduce.
These are the only two directives that we were given before God released us from His direct guidance. From then one we are on our own. No more involvement from God in any way shape or form. No miracles.
There is one exception to this and that is that God, once found by our spirit or consciousness, will respond.
He does not seek us but will not ignore us once found.
To me, it seems obvious why Eve ate of the tree. She, like all of us would chose knowledge of all things, as opposed to ignorance of almost everything.
It is said that knowledge of good and evil is what gives us moral sense. Bibles and Churches have also worked quite hard to give us a moral sense and it’s value is without doubt.
To me, eternal life in ignorance of God would be more of a curse than a blessing. Eve, in her perfection would then have done the right thing.
Are there any of you who would not follow Jesus and Eve in learning this moral sense or would you give up your moral sense for eternal life without knowledge of good and evil?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,731 posts, read 3,012,669 times
Reputation: 2474
What is good and evil? Different things to different people. What one will term 'culture' and an accepted norm in their society, will be 'evil' to another in a different society.

How can something who 'creates' you, ever forget you, be lost from you or not be always a part of you?
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:49 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,841,912 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
What is good and evil? Different things to different people. What one will term 'culture' and an accepted norm in their society, will be 'evil' to another in a different society.
True, we all have our own good and evil grafts.
To me pain is evil but to an S&m it is good.


How can something who 'creates' you, ever forget you, be lost from you or not be always a part of you?
Do you believe that a God had a direct hand in your being created?
Not to be crude but did he help yopur parents get it on?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:08 PM
 
995 posts, read 1,178,622 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
God learns to be perfect.
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
New Testament Hebrews5 8

Yes, even though Jesus was perfect, he was still able to learn, and grow. One way to define perfect would be a being who eternally progresses. Perfection then is always in evolution.
The suffering of Jesus, as ours, comes from sinning. From knowing that we have not hit the mark.

Before I was saved, (none are ever lost), I had to recognize that our world and universe is perfect. Perfect while evolving to a higher form of perfection continuously. As the U S constitution says, a more perfect union. This term I apply to us. Perfect yet evolving to a more perfect understanding of reality and God.
This is a hard concept to grasp and I like to use a baby as a model.
A baby is born as perfect as it can be at that point in time. It grows along with his/her perfection, even with sin, blemish or physical deformity, grows along with it, yet never loses it.
We then are all as perfect as possible at this point in time.
Our duty then is to recognize this state and further our knowledge of good and evil. This, and when possible, reproduce.
These are the only two directives that we were given before God released us from His direct guidance. From then one we are on our own. No more involvement from God in any way shape or form. No miracles.
There is one exception to this and that is that God, once found by our spirit or consciousness, will respond.
He does not seek us but will not ignore us once found.
To me, it seems obvious why Eve ate of the tree. She, like all of us would chose knowledge of all things, as opposed to ignorance of almost everything.
It is said that knowledge of good and evil is what gives us moral sense. Bibles and Churches have also worked quite hard to give us a moral sense and itís value is without doubt.
To me, eternal life in ignorance of God would be more of a curse than a blessing. Eve, in her perfection would then have done the right thing.
Are there any of you who would not follow Jesus and Eve in learning this moral sense or would you give up your moral sense for eternal life without knowledge of good and evil?

Regards
DL
God has to learn?? God is All-Knowing why would He need to evolve? He is the most perfect. Our world our universe is not perfect. What we have are temporal. This is not our home. Our home is Paradise which we had been banished but will return one day. Our ticket there will be the way we conduct ourselves over here
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:36 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,360,443 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
God has to learn?? God is All-Knowing why would He need to evolve? He is the most perfect. Our world our universe is not perfect. What we have are temporal. This is not our home. Our home is Paradise which we had been banished but will return one day. Our ticket there will be the way we conduct ourselves over here

You know I was thinking the same. The God who created the universe had to learn, that is very wrong. God did not have to learn, or every have to learn. He is forever all knowing and will always be.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:07 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,841,912 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
God has to learn?? God is All-Knowing why would He need to evolve? He is the most perfect. Our world our universe is not perfect. What we have are temporal. This is not our home. Our home is Paradise which we had been banished but will return one day. Our ticket there will be the way we conduct ourselves over here
If you do not believe scripture and think that things are not perfect then this scripture also means nothing to you.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

How will you get to heaven when you do not believe scripture?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:14 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,841,912 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
You know I was thinking the same. The God who created the universe had to learn, that is very wrong. God did not have to learn, or every have to learn. He is forever all knowing and will always be.
Are you saying that he knew that he would fail in his creation of angels and lose 1/3 of them.
That he would fail to start up Adam and Eve properly in the beginning of man.
That he would have to gain the title of genocidal maniac for his great flood.
That he would fail with the new batch of humans and have to return to kill again at end times.

If he knew all these things then why fail?

Further, how much of scripture do you discard in your reading?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,360,443 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Are you saying that he knew that he would fail in his creation of angels and lose 1/3 of them.
That he would fail to start up Adam and Eve properly in the beginning of man.
That he would have to gain the title of genocidal maniac for his great flood.
That he would fail with the new batch of humans and have to return to kill again at end times.

If he knew all these things then why fail?

Further, how much of scripture do you discard in your reading?

Regards
DL

God did not fail ,no. Adam and Eve was given free will and they had the right to choose, and they disobeyed God.

He did not fail when He created the angels, Lucifer just wanted what God had and wanted the be praised hisself.

The people who were wiped away were wicked wiped away due to their wickedness.

We are given free will to choose God or satan.

God is the Beginning and the End, so yes he knew all of this would happen. God did not fail, He had a plan and that plan was Jesus.

But if you really want to know why He created everything even though he knew, then Ask Him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Do you understand what this scripture means? God's ways are perfect and His work is perfect, but the problem is with us, because we are sinful, and God is not. Adam and Eve had everything and they messed it up, that was there fault not God's.

You ask if we believe in the bible, but do you read the bible. Because if you did, you would understand God's ways, and you would understand man's ways. As you read through the bible, people were being disobient and doing things there way, that is why bad things happen. A life apart from God will amount to nothing.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 02-12-2009 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:21 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,841,912 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn_2828 View Post
God did not fail ,no. Adam and Eve was given free will and they had the right to choose, and they disobeyed God.

He did not fail when He created the angels, Lucifer just wanted what God had and wanted the be praised hisself.

The people who were wiped away were wicked wiped away due to their wickedness.

We are given free will to choose God or satan.

God is the Beginning and the End, so yes he knew all of this would happen. God did not fail, He had a plan and that plan was Jesus.

But if you really want to know why He created everything even though he knew, then Ask Him.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Do you understand what this scripture means? God's ways are perfect and His work is perfect, but the problem is with us, because we are sinful, and God is not. Adam and Eve had everything and they messed it up, that was there fault not God's.

You ask if we believe in the bible, but do you read the bible. Because if you did, you would understand God's ways, and you would understand man's ways. As you read through the bible, people were being disobient and doing things there way, that is why bad things happen. A life apart from God will amount to nothing.
If you actually believe what you wrote then your indoctrination into idiocy is complete.

I cannot make a blind man see.

Follow your genocidal maniac.

Regards
DL
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:09 AM
 
Location: DFW
307 posts, read 1,054,691 times
Reputation: 137
Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Taken out of context?
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