U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-11-2009, 10:51 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,930,651 times
Reputation: 409

Advertisements

Mark was not necessarily written to Palestinian Jews. His emphasis was not on geography. He collected some teachings/sayings of Jesus and compiled them into a Gospel.

Your point?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-11-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 964,800 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Mark was not necessarily written to Palestinian Jews. His emphasis was not on geography. He collected some teachings/sayings of Jesus and compiled them into a Gospel.

Your point?
His point might be that Mark was NOT an eyewitness?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 06:48 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,707,467 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predos View Post
Same way you claim to know the writings of the bible being correct, because they say so. There is no proof.

At least with the writings of Josephus we have a name of an individual to research to determine facts. With the bible, it's all gods mystery. Or the ruminations of some power hungry men. Gues which one gets my vote.
The Bible is correct, not because we say so. It is correct because the prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled in the past and in our own time.
Historical discovery also shows the Bible to be both truthful and accurate.
Those who ignore these prophecies, are often those who have not considered the details of the Book.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,838 posts, read 4,053,781 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Prove it. Can you give me some orginal texts that show the exact story happening prior to Christ in other religions?

Is it possible that the other religions copied off of Christianity/Judaism?





Have you ever looked into textual criticism of the Bible? Do you really have any idea the number of manuscripts, and the evidence that we have regarding the original content of the scriptures? It's mind-boggling how well it's been preserved in comparison to other books of antiquity that are widely accepted.


Names of individuals? You mean like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude...etc?

Honestly, you're embarrassing yourself.

As for your first question, have you ever read anything about the Egyptian God Horus? Horus pre-dates Jesus by a few thousand years. If you look at the attributes that were given to Horus they parallel those given to Jesus in every way. However most conservative Christians say this is ridiculous; it is not even worth investigating, therefore, you are left to your own ignorance. Horus is just one of many, there were many (of so called) Pagan beliefs in the Mediterranean region around 1 CE that gave rise to saviors and God-men, these were stories found in Egyptian, Greek and Roman beliefs. These were long established beliefs, therefore, in order for Christianity to even try and gain a footholdand compete with these beliefs, they had to come up with the same types of stories and apply them to Jesus. Not only did they copy the attributes of the other "God-men" they embilished these traites and applied them to Jesus to make it more credible to those of Greek and Roman beliefs.
The problem that Christianity created for itself, was to make the historical life of Jesus unbeliveable to logical thinking people. If you peel away all of this foreign material you might get a clearer pictue of what Jesus taught and how he lived, they by, getting the most out of his teachings.

As for your claim that the Gospel were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, there is no proof that these men wrote them. Anyone could have wrote these and assigned a name to them. It would be more credible to have titled these, "The Gospel as taught by" .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,027,363 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The Bible is correct, not because we say so. It is correct because the prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled in the past and in our own time.
Historical discovery also shows the Bible to be both truthful and accurate.
Those who ignore these prophecies, are often those who have not considered the details of the Book.

And those who try to make facts fit with these "prophecies" of the bible lead a very delusional life. You can, by using your imagination, make anything fit any proclaimation made at any time and call it a fulfilled prophecy. Doesn't make it true, just a further delusion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 11:56 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,930,651 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
As for your first question, have you ever read anything about the Egyptian God Horus? Horus pre-dates Jesus by a few thousand years. If you look at the attributes that were given to Horus they parallel those given to Jesus in every way. However most conservative Christians say this is ridiculous; it is not even worth investigating, therefore, you are left to your own ignorance.
Are you going to provide the original texts, as I requested? Or at least some that pre-date Christianity and prove that Christianity was invented from it?

Quote:


Horus is just one of many, there were many (of so called) Pagan beliefs in the Mediterranean region around 1 CE that gave rise to saviors and God-men, these were stories found in Egyptian, Greek and Roman beliefs.
You are correct--there were some legends of god-men. Big difference though is that the "god-men" of the time were sort of a demi-god character. They were not THE GOD ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

Not to mention the thousands of years of prophecy leading up to Jesus.
Quote:

These were long established beliefs, therefore, in order for Christianity to even try and gain a footholdand compete with these beliefs, they had to come up with the same types of stories and apply them to Jesus. Not only did they copy the attributes of the other "God-men" they embilished these traites and applied them to Jesus to make it more credible to those of Greek and Roman beliefs.
Nope...Just doesn't work. Christ is the long-ago prophesied Messiah. He rose from the dead, and was observed by 500 people having done so.
Quote:


The problem that Christianity created for itself, was to make the historical life of Jesus unbeliveable to logical thinking people. If you peel away all of this foreign material you might get a clearer pictue of what Jesus taught and how he lived, they by, getting the most out of his teachings.

As for your claim that the Gospel were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, there is no proof that these men wrote them. Anyone could have wrote these and assigned a name to them. It would be more credible to have titled these, "The Gospel as taught by" .
There's no reason to believe they weren't written by, or under the direct supervision of these men.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 964,800 times
Reputation: 142
Post #5 calling!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,838 posts, read 4,053,781 times
Reputation: 3022
Are you going to provide the original texts, as I requested? Or at least some that pre-date Christianity and prove that Christianity was invented from it?

The life of Horus is detailed in Egyptian hieroglyphs, you might want to do the research yourself.

You are correct--there were some legends of god-men. Big difference though is that the "god-men" of the time were sort of a demi-god character. They were not THE GOD ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

This is the same aspect as with Jesus, he also is a demi-god character as the definition goes. These demi-gods all had the same attributes as Jesus did, but they existed long before Jesus. Again, do your own research.

Not to mention the thousands of years of prophecy leading up to Jesus.


Most of authors of the gospels we familiar with the writings of the OT and there prophecies, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to manufacture events to fit prophecies.

Nope...Just doesn't work. Christ is the long-ago prophesied Messiah. He rose from the dead, and was observed by 500 people having done so.

I would ask, is there documentation outside of the bible that supports this event. It is no different than Horus or Mithras rising from the dead. If you read about these, you find that both have the same claim, again, long before Jesus.

There's no reason to believe they weren't written by, or under the direct supervision of these men.


According to allot of scholars it is agreed that these text were written anywhere form 70CE to 130CE. Assuming the age of these men were about the same age of Jesus, this would make them 100+ years old when they pened them. This is a bit of a time span to be able to recall all the events with such clearity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,838 posts, read 4,053,781 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
There's more to the Herod story than the fact Josephus does not mention it. Yes, Josephus wrote extensively about Herod including his many atrocities but fails to mention the one that would have been his most dastardly - the [alleged] killing of infants. This should make one rather suspicious of the event. No other contemporary writer, whether they be Roman, Greek or Jewish, make ANY mention of it either. In addition, none of the other Gospels has anything to say about it either.

The above is damaging enough, but what is even more ridiculous, compounding the problem, is the writer of Matthew's attempt to also claim Herod's supposed massacre of these infants fulfilled a prophecy found in Jeremiah 31. Any sane and intelligent person reading the verse in question (verse 15) IN IT'S CONTEXT will quickly realize the writer of the book of Jeremiah does NOT have children, much less Jesus, in mind 600 years in the future. This is nothing more than a desperate and sorry attempt by early Christians to find anything in the Old Testament they could cling to to embed Jesus into. Scripture manipulation at its best!

This I agree with, like I said in my last post, any one can manufacture event to support prophecies if they have an understanding of the prophecies in the first place. To assume that the writers of the gospels had no information of these is very hard to believe, due to the culture they were raised in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2009, 01:54 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,762,595 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
It isn't a question of believing the bible or not, it is in regard to Christians saying that the bible is the enerrorant word of God when the bible is filled with errors. I could care less in what people read, but to read something at face value and then try and convince me it is the total truth is in my opinion BS, when the facts speak for themselves. If one has to alter history just to fit their beliefs then their beliefs are not worth a damn.
It is your right not to believe. Nobody can force you believe in what you consider BS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top