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Old 02-11-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,680,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonababe View Post
Why would your God allow a flock of birds to fly into the engines of the plane?
That is a hard question zonobabe.....When I was a youth in a Christian school and I asked a hard question, the answer was without fail..."Gods ways are a mystery"
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:18 AM
 
152 posts, read 274,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Why the need to deny the working of God?
With such a statement you let the other party ask the dead horse question "Well if God is working then what about when the plane (or others) are not saved..."

This causes the discussion to instantly gravitate towards defining the morality of God... humanities free will... and so on.

It is probably best just be happy that these people survived and leave it at that...
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:25 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,902,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeck View Post
With such a statement you let the other party ask the dead horse question "Well if God is working then what about when the plane (or others) are not saved..."

This causes the discussion to instantly gravitate towards defining the morality of God... humanities free will... and so on.

It is probably best just be happy that these people survived and leave it at that...

Honestly? I have no idea why God does what he does. But I can tell you that when everyone agrees that it was an extraordinary event that this pilot managed to land it...maybe we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a work of God.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,402,170 times
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kdbrich wrote:
Quote:
Why the need to deny the working of God?
Because he wasn't flying the plane or a member of the flight crew. This was a very survivable crash while many plane crashes are not survivable no matter how many prayers are made by the passengers as it goes down.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:31 AM
 
3 posts, read 2,941 times
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Default Flight 232 no flight controls was the miracle, not this

Ace job by the crew!

Glad the co-pilot cleared this up for the non-flying public. Not a miracle.

Airline Transport Pilot Practical Test Standards require 'maneuvering to a landing area with powerplants inoperative' and ditching at sea. Sea planes land all the time on the water. Engine-out maneuvering begins with your private pilot license.

Flight 232 lost all flight controls yet they made it to landing approach at sioux city Iowa cartwheeled and 140 people walked away including my neighbor Denny Fitch who was in the cockpit without so much as a seat or seat belt.'

That was the day I quit my software job and began racking up thousands of hours flight time and a string of licenses.

Film at 11.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:32 AM
 
152 posts, read 274,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Honestly? I have no idea why God does what he does. But I can tell you that when everyone agrees that it was an extraordinary event that this pilot managed to land it...maybe we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a work of God.
If we can't understand "God's way" nothing can be said to be caused by God unless somehow verified. This verification would probably be scriptures... but the debate about the validity of still goes on. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick say it was because of God?
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:00 AM
 
3 posts, read 2,941 times
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I thank God for creating the universe and in such a way as to allow life to evolve as it has on earth.

I cannot believe that such a God would be interfering in our individual daily lives, rigging the game if you will and taking all the sport out of it. If he created this for his own pleasure interfering in such small ways would be in opposition to his original motivation.

The engine-out maneuvering was standard procedure for such an emergency, though less experienced pilots might have tried some stupid. Experienced pilots and pilots at the airline level know to:

Put it in the bag ( trim a/c for best glide speed )
Attempt engine restart altitude allowing
Glide to a landing area at best glide speed
Dont change your mind once a landing area is chosen
touchdown into wind if possible and at just above wing stall speed

A controlled-crash is immensely more survivable than an uncontrolled crash.

This is practiced all the time and there is no reason to involve God into such small matters.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,402,170 times
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CFICFIIMEI wrote:
Quote:
Flight 232 lost all flight controls yet they made it to landing approach at sioux city Iowa cartwheeled and 140 people walked away including my neighbor Denny Fitch who was in the cockpit without so much as a seat or seat belt.'
I remember seeing the videos of that crash. That was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen because it looked like no one could possibly have gotten out of that mess alive.
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:54 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,535,459 times
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There are sentient forces that guide life on this planet. It does not deny evolution or the feats of man. It may not even be a God. In my experience, it's more akin to the Force concept in Star Wars and "spirit guides" or "guardian angels".

The question of why people say "God saved that plane!" when it lands safely and "God works in mysterious ways!" when it doesn't is akin to why people thank Jesus when they win big games but walk off the field with their heads sunk when they lose. Mastery of physics and spirituality lies in being grateful for both.

There is a level of mental consciousness humans are capable of reaching by which they are protected. Forces protect and guide them, provide opportunties. But it takes years of work to reach that level, and few religious or atheistic people are there, so the feats and failures of humankind still hold more power for most. The game of chance is still at play (because people have free will) until people tap into this elevated state. The the questions of science versus spirituality or even whether or not there is a God fade away.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:00 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,581,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
There are sentient forces that guide life on this planet. It does not deny evolution or the feats of man. It may not even be a God. In my experience, it's more akin to the Force concept in Star Wars and "spirit guides" or "guardian angels".

The question of why people say "God saved that plane!" when it lands safely and "God works in mysterious ways!" when it doesn't is akin to why people thank Jesus when they win big games.

There is a level of mental consciousness humans are capable of reaching by which they are protected. Forces protect and guide them, provide opportunties. But it takes years of work to reach that level, and few religious or atheistic people are there, so the feats and failures of humankind still hold more power for most. The game of chance is still at play until people tap into this elevated state.

Well said, and confirmed so.

Just no reason to become complacent..
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