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Old 02-12-2009, 10:20 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 4,452,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Evolution directly contradicts the Biblical accounts of creation. I don't know if you believe the Bible or not...but they are not compatible.
No they don't. Many christians take genesis as an allegory, to them, both the bible is true and evolution.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:49 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,905,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Day That Never Comes View Post
I follow what I believe in. That is what's great about God, he gave us a brain and free will to make our own decisions. I go to church, I pray, I've read the bible and I've studied science. With all that information I've made up my own mind on things. I don't care what the Catholic Church says, they (or any other church) are not the word of God. The bible was written by men, men who had their own beliefs and interests.
Why bother going if you don't believe?

Quote:




The only evidence I need for evolution is just to look how the world works. Look at the diversity in the animal kingdom. Some animals of the same species are now different because certain environmental issues changed them in order to survive (getting stuck on a different island, etc.). Study fossils and compare them to today's living relatives and that's all you need. With that said, all living creatures must have a parent, that is where God comes in.

I look at the same animals, and I observe variations in a species...but I just don't see evidence to support the idea of one species evolving into another. It's just not there. The fossil record doesn't support it.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: vagabond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Why bother going if you don't believe?

I look at the same animals, and I observe variations in a species...but I just don't see evidence to support the idea of one species evolving into another. It's just not there. The fossil record doesn't support it.
i seem to remember one of the last times that the overwhelming scientific evidence was ignored by the church, though back then, the church controlled the governments and had the power to torment and execute those that didn't believe that the earth was flat or at the center of the universe. they even had the power to brush that knowledge under the rug, hiding it from the majority of the christian world for hundreds of years.

luckily, nowadays, there isn't that kind of abuse of power, though it still exists in smaller ways.

eventually, the church recognized that the earth was a sphere (more or less), and that it was not even at the center of our galaxy, much less the universe. maybe the church will one day recognize that evolution is as much a part of our daily lives as is gravity.

until then, people will continue to be polarized into either an 'ignorant, logic-denying believer' or a 'disrespectful, ammoral atheist' because the whole issue has been politicized, and there is hardly any middle ground for anyone to stand on, and certainly no middle ground that is supported by any vocal majority.

aaron out.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:29 AM
 
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This is the most rational and enlightened discussion about this issue I've ever encountered.

I just watched an interesting NOVA special on the Dover, PA Intelligent Design trial in 2005. Both sides presented their arguments as to why or why not Intelligent Design should be taught as a legitimate scientific theory.

The arguments put forth by the Intelligent Design scientists were disproven quite readily. The judge ordered "Intelligent design is not science" and concluded that the motivations for inclusion in classroom curricula were religious in nature.

Amazingly, death threats were issued to evolutionists from Christians.

But their arguments were creationist, based on the notion that species just popped up out of nowhere.

The actual answer is as the OP suggested - there are definitely sentient forces at work but there is also clearly evolution. One need only understand Native American spirituality or experience it themselves. I too don't understand why it has to be one or the other. We just need to get the concept of Intelligent Design out of the hands of religion and out of the creationists.

Few consider the "alien drop" hypothesis - in that we were placed here by extraterrestrial beings. I have no idea and am not advocating it, but considering we haven't set foot on one planet besides our own and that there are billions of stars - perhaps trillions of planets, who are we to say?
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: downeast
473 posts, read 614,922 times
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this is very interesting- usually i dont care to think about the origins of the universe and all, because its just too big for me to figure out with my little brain- and everytime there is a discussion on the subject, it gets way over my head way too fast so i just back off. this is the first time someone has kept it simple enough for me to follow along. thank you.
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:44 AM
 
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Well, even before evolution. Most of the world had developed their own idea of biological origins(whether led by a god or not). I guess "poof" or "godiddit" hadn't cut it since the dark ages.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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ID or Evolution, I don't see why both can not exist together. If we are made from the "stuffs" of stars and we are intelligent, then by default, I would have to conclude that the universe is intelligent.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,695,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
ID or Evolution, I don't see why both can not exist together. If we are made from the "stuffs" of stars and we are intelligent, then by default, I would have to conclude that the universe is intelligent.
By this criteria a rock is intelligent, but I rather doubt that.

Our bodies are made of re-cycled materials that have temporarily belonged to uncounted lives before our selves ate them, drank them or breathed them in and made flesh and blood and bone of them.
Our bodies, like the bodies of all life on Earth, are made mostly of just a few chemical elements: Hydrogen, Oxygen, Calcium and Carbon.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,144 times
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ID and evolution are incompatible. Evolution is scientific theory which has stood up to rigorous scrutiny for one hundred and fifty years and all tests that have tried to disprove it have failed. ID on the otherhand is not science, it has no evidence to support it and it is untestable by scientific means since it makes a claim that is unfalsifiable and undetectable by science. Someone may believe that a deity did it by the processes of evolution(such as Ken Miller) although that differs from Intelligent Design since ID postulates the unverifiable claim that a higher power is necessary for organisms to have arisen into their current form whereas evolution makes it unnecessary and all the evidence points to evolution.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: part of the Matrix--for now!
1,030 posts, read 1,148,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Day That Never Comes View Post
I am Catholic but I don't believe the bible is the word of God. I believe God did create the Heavens and the Earth and everything we know, he built the building blocks. But I also believe that the species on Earth evolved and continue to evolve to better survive and flourish. It is all part of Gods plan.
99% of all life that has ever existed on Earth is extinct. Is that part of your god's plan also?
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