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Old 03-11-2009, 08:31 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,908,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackyfrost01 View Post
Oh I quite agree. I never mentioned the Bible It was just a general statement.

Originally Posted by kdbrich
I have yet to see modern science come up with anything that disproves the Bible.
.


You can't make human females from the rib of a human male (Adam and Even story in Genesis)

YOU can't. I can't. Doesn't mean God can't.

 
Old 03-11-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Midwest
29,144 posts, read 18,419,917 times
Reputation: 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackyfrost01 View Post
Oh I quite agree. I never mentioned the Bible It was just a general statement.

Originally Posted by kdbrich
I have yet to see modern science come up with anything that disproves the Bible.
.


You can't make human females from the rib of a human male (Adam and Even story in Genesis)
You can if you clone them!
 
Old 03-11-2009, 10:15 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,908,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
You can if you clone them!

Try that and tell me how it works out for ya.
 
Old 03-11-2009, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,039 posts, read 30,710,365 times
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Just the fact that Adam and Eve poofed into the world fully grown already having language etc., and ready to go is more that a bit absurd....Poor things missed their childhood. Face it, the entire premise of instant creation make the replicator on Star Ship Enterprise more believable....Computer..... "one full grown man and woman please"
 
Old 03-12-2009, 12:20 AM
 
Location: England
1,171 posts, read 2,188,659 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by braderjoe View Post
Well..what do you expect? Nothing to be sick about Initally Adam & Eve were blessed with 2 pairs of twins. That 's what got the human race started along...

Somebody said Ewww thats sick! Well, that is how it all got started. But theres real sickness around now, I think Ewwwwwwww when I pick up the paper and see whats going on.
 
Old 03-12-2009, 06:15 AM
 
2,633 posts, read 4,453,627 times
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When exactly did incest and rape become bad in the eyes of god, in what verse did god decide it was bad?
 
Old 03-12-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,025,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Just the fact that Adam and Eve poofed into the world fully grown already having language etc., and ready to go is more that a bit absurd....Poor things missed their childhood. Face it, the entire premise of instant creation make the replicator on Star Ship Enterprise more believable....Computer..... "one full grown man and woman please"
This also explains why children are indoctrinated into this religion at a very young age. If you still believe in fairy tales, "The Bible" is right up your alley.
 
Old 03-12-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,076,781 times
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Red face So you say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post

No....they likely weren't a caucasian couple....but honestly, I don't know that it matters.

It is interesting that scientists today are suggesting that all life on earth descended from a common set of ancestors relatively recently.

Oh, you just heard about that one? It's called The Laws of Evolution, circa 2009, but it's been in the works for, oh... about 150 years.

"
Scientists agree (that would be millions and millions of us, BTW...) that our early ancestors, Homo erectus, first appeared in Africa between one and two million years ago. They spread throughout the world and evolved into ancient humans. But did ancient humans evolve into modern humans all over the world at around the same time (the 'multiregional' theory)? Or did modern humans evolve in Africa, and gradually replace all the other ancient humans (the 'Out-of-Africa' theory)? Either way, by about 30,000 years ago, we - Homo sapiens - were the only humans left on the planet."

To geo-scientists, "recently" means about 1.4 million years ago; a tiny percentage of a 4.55 Ga-old planet. Let's not try to purposefully obfuscate the illiterate here with off-the-cuff statistics, sir!

(I'm reminded by your comments, of
Samuel Langhorne Clemens's very famous quote: "There are lies, d@mn lies and statistics!")

Of course we all came from a common ancestor, out of Africa. Even you! You must have been out with the flu during that lecture, 75 years ago.

As for your "thousands of transitional fossils"? I know of a lot of hoaxes, like Lucy, Nebraska Man, etc. Most of the fossils I've seen are either hoaxes, or apes.

Lucy was not a hoax; she just didn't meet the expectations of Xtianity's desperate need for "Proof" of a single common human female proto-ancestor. When this was first identified, Xtians literally leaped on-board, stating that "science has proved Adam and Eve!". Ooppsss. Another minor problem was that the mitochondrial Adam also noted was from another time and another place.

Those danged long-distance relationships, eh? They NEVER work out! Especially when there's kids!

And, BTW, kd; apes ARE a transitional form. You obviously don't understand what defines "a transitional form". I understand; it's difficult. but since identical DNA produces an identical organism, a transitional form must, ergo, show almost-identical DNA, but with just a few minor variants. Ergo: an ape, a chimp, even a monkey, with almost identical DNA to ours. A monkey's DNA: not so much; an ape, much closer, and a chimp? As predicted, it's almost identical. Hence, there's your transitional form proof. But again, this is conveniently "waved off".

Archeologists are just having fun now filling in the finer transitional forms, but Xtianity pounces on even that as proof of Evolution's evil intent and confusion. How sad for your side.

Why? Because: you ask, we provide; you then defer with insults as to the veracity of science and scientists, and dismiss with the usual hand-waving arrogance. As if you actually understood the science.

So... Even when we provide what you ask for, you then deflect with "Oh, well, I didn't mean THAT. I meant "THIS". You' have to show us something really convincing!" , and you then, predictably, ask for something else. Which you then, reliably, ditto, won't accept.

This is not an open debate here. It's a circus. It's tiresome, and, obviously, pointless.

Next point: hoaxes:

"
For decades, a fossil skull discovered in Piltdown, England, was hailed as the missing link between apes and humans. Entire careers were built on its authenticity. Then in 1953, the awful truth came out: "Piltdown Man" was a fake! But who done it? In "The Boldest Hoax," NOVA gets to the bottom of the greatest scientific hoodwinking of all time."

Isn't it intriquing that when science, through it's very formidable peer-review process, uncovers any and all hoaxs
(as the system was so inerrantly designed to do), the results are SPLASHED over the world's Christian headlines. As proof of what, exactly? The relentless efforts of IDTs to denegrate ALL of science's discoveries?

What bull dropping quality of argument that is! Worse still is that the desperate Xtian IDT'rs know it full well. Science is THE ONLY systematic paradigm that effectively self-regulates, and happily so, with full disclosure when problems come up.

That fact, which pretty much GUARANTEES it's long-term validity and honesty, is so stupidly ("neener neener!") used against it, or so the nut-ball contingent surmises. In fact, it only serves to show the utter weakness in any of their arguments.

If they were to use scientific tools, the resultant truths would scurry out all over them in numbers to large to ignore, samping them in nasty little truth bits, suffocating their nonsense once and for all.

Every attempt to denegrate science via screaming rants about the occasional proof of fallible human nature (even scientists are only human, after all...) only proves out exactly why you CAN trust science. Not the opposite. And even more sadly, you know it full well.

And yet, millions prefer the easy way out; to "bow and tithe" and leave the thinking to "others". Those same "others" who obviously have found a very successful means of mass crowd control through fear and fake promises of an afterlife. They even include promises for your precious pet pet's immortality, just to seal the deal!


The absence of IDTs' use of science's rigorously audited tool-set simply proves to the intellectually honest that fundamentalist dogma, absent even the most rudimentary efforts at objectivity, is just that. Illiterate dogmatism, absent even the tiniest shread of validity.


I have yet to see modern science come up with anything that disproves the Bible.

The others here, as well as I, have shown you many of those. A more accurate statement from you might have been: "I have yet to accept anything that modern science has come up with, no matter how valid."

BTW, in an actual, adjudicated debate, you can't just deny the other side's stuff with a hand-waving dismissal. When they make a good and valid point in the eyes of the judges, they get a point, and you lose one.

Anyhow, you've proven above that you won't accept them anyhow, so why should we bother? It's fortunate for IDTs that such rigorous debate regulation is absent on C-D. Elsewise, you guys would, reliably, lose.

In fact, to your point about disproofs of the bible, there are too many to list here, but admittedly it's a bit hard because the bible very shrewdly avoids any sort of exacting prophesy or detailed examples.

It's always like this: "In a year when the sun showeth reddish on a spring evening, a goat shall appear and speak the truth..."

Baa..aa..a..hhhhh!

Remember all those so-called prophetic truths by Nostradamus? Like for Y2K, New Year's Eve, 2000? And what happened then? Lesseee.... oh yeah... zip! So, lesson learned there? If'n you're in the "scarify the peasants" biz, be careful not to put an exact time on anything! It'll always bite you, unless you happen to luck out. Which for the most part never happens.


That's what's really getting to you, isn't it? Knucklehead televangelists that make all Christianity look bad are your examples of Christianity?

Nope. Knuckle-headed anti-logic and sweeping denouncements of proven facts by those without even a kindergarten level understanding of basic genetics, geology, nuclear science or biochemistry? That, coupled with your spokesmen on TV, who similarly denounce science and lionize the bible, and then "heal" people by pushing them over backwards, thereby loosening their wallet-strings? You bet they're despicable. I'm glad you see them for what they are. They are all still part of the bigger Xtian promise.

What does get to me is organized stupidity and purposeful fear-mongering which coincidentally harms our species' respectability and survival. Especially when the past history of Christianity is fraught with a travesty of hatred, illiteracy, punishment, wars, bludgeonic "persuasion", and hubris. Wonderful!

Please. Robert Schuller is a joke--and most of Christianity dislikes him as much as do.
Hey; he's your guy, not mine. But, at odds with your disclaimer statement, apparently literally millions of brainwashed folks send him their hard-earned dollars each and every week. Even his own son recently disowned him though, so perhaps there is poetic justice here after all...

Rev. Robert H. Schuller ousts his son as 'Hour of Power' preacher - Los Angeles Times

And keep in mind that his pronouncements, no matter how silly or greed-driven, are no worse than anything that any fundamentalist Christian spouts.


Ahhh... honest dissent. It's good for everyone, even Christians!

Last edited by rifleman; 03-12-2009 at 01:25 PM.. Reason: typos
 
Old 03-12-2009, 01:18 PM
 
4,669 posts, read 3,908,470 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Hey; he's your guy, not mine. But, at odds with your disclaimer statement, apparently literally millions of brainwashed folks send him their hard-earned dollars each and every week. Even his own son recently disowned him though, so perhaps there is poetic justice here after all...

Rev. Robert H. Schuller ousts his son as 'Hour of Power' preacher - Los Angeles Times


Ahhh... honest dissent. It's good for everyone, even Christians!

That's my point--most Christians see through Schuler. There are plenty of uninformed, nominally-religious folks that still think he's the bee's knees....but he really has lost all credibility among Christians. His son going off on his own is evidence.
 
Old 03-12-2009, 01:19 PM
 
4,997 posts, read 13,555,908 times
Reputation: 2400
Contradictions are another funny thing? Which one is correct?

john 10:30 I and my Father are one.
or
john 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

How about the accounts of Judas? Did he hang himself or did he fall? "Then he went away and hanged himself." (Matthew 27:1-5 NIV)

"Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out." (Acts 1:15-18 NIV)

Paul said that God was not a God of confusion, but we certainly have a lot of confusion in the bible (I Corinthians 14:33)

Here is some more confusion. Do we kill or not kill?

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."

Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."
or

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."

How about stealing?

Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal."

Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him."
and then:

Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians."

Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians."

Does God change his mind?

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."

Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

Is God good?

Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."

Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

So above we have a God that even creates evil.

Should we call people names?

Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]
and then Jesus said:

Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]

But the Bible is inspired. Everything in it is the truth.

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 03-12-2009 at 01:38 PM..
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