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Old 02-24-2009, 11:42 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,377,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
I find it interesting though that the Greek Philosophers actually borrowed these ideas from ancient Egypt and Babylonian mythology. So it would seem that evolution is equally a religious mythology as is creationsim (which is entirly different than the biblical Creation account)
If you want to talk about those early ideas of evolution, you should start a new thread. It only describes those philosophers' views, and does not generally describe current scientific views of evolution. Unlike creation stories, scientific explanations have the ability to change to support new findings, to develop more accurate explanations. There was no scientific method in those days, and as you pointed out, they just borrowed ideas, like you borrow ideas from the ancient Jews. But now people can (and do) test it. If you had the ambition you could study science, biology, anthropology, etc. and test evolution yourself! With science you don't have to take an idea at face value, as long as you are willing to do the work to disprove something. Therein lies the difference.


Quote:
Don't think your religious ??? Then what are you doing in here prosyletizing in a religious/philosophy forum ??? Why are'nt you down in the Science and technology section where only pure atheistic intellect matter anyway ??? Know why ??? Because you can't help yourself. Religion is a matter of passion of the heartfelt belief, not just intellect. I'm amazed that many of the hardcores post on no other subject in this forum than this evolutionary mythology. The prosyletation urge is apparently so strong that there is no control to stilfe it, and post it elsewhere. Even the Greek Stoics, who never viewed themselves as having a personal creator or god were still passionately religious, having beliefs in an immortal soul and such like. Much the same as the ancient Chinese philosophers who of confusionism, Taoism, Shintoism, Buddhism, etc also really see no personal creator in the western sense. But philosophcally religious and devout of those beliefs just the same.

So for all those who make fun of the Biblical account of creation as a mythology and a old wivies fables, look in the glass mirror at the origin of your mythological beliefs before you throw those intellectual stones.
My beliefs about evolution are tentative as I am settling for the best conclusions so far. I am always ready (and eager) to learn new things that improve my knowledge of reality, and am not afraid to challenge concepts. Faith is different, as it is accepting ideas at face value without the ability to test them yourself or even challenge them at all.

--
Now, there is an issue in this thread. We need to specifically define religion. We have talked a lot about faith and its definitions, but then somehow the OP concludes that people are religious, because of the oversimplified idea that we all have faith (but then also denying that faith equals religion...).

So before we can move any further to try to answer the question "Are we all religious?" we need to define "religious."

If it means what I assume most people think it means, which is a set of beliefs and practices concerning the supernatural, then no I am not religious. If you have a different definition, please be clear as to what it is and why you choose it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:57 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,799,553 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
If you want to talk about those early ideas of evolution, you should start a new thread. It only describes those philosophers' views, and does not generally describe current scientific views of evolution. Unlike creation stories, scientific explanations have the ability to change to support new findings, to develop more accurate explanations. There was no scientific method in those days, and as you pointed out, they just borrowed ideas, like you borrow ideas from the ancient Jews. But now people can (and do) test it. If you had the ambition you could study science, biology, anthropology, etc. and test evolution yourself! With science you don't have to take an idea at face value, as long as you are willing to do the work to disprove something. Therein lies the difference.


My beliefs about evolution are tentative as I am settling for the best conclusions so far. I am always ready (and eager) to learn new things that improve my knowledge of reality, and am not afraid to challenge concepts. Faith is different, as it is accepting ideas at face value without the ability to test them yourself or even challenge them at all.

--
Now, there is an issue in this thread. We need to specifically define religion. We have talked a lot about faith and its definitions, but then somehow the OP concludes that people are religious, because of the oversimplified idea that we all have faith (but then also denying that faith equals religion...).

So before we can move any further to try to answer the question "Are we all religious?" we need to define "religious."

If it means what I assume most people think it means, which is a set of beliefs and practices concerning the supernatural, then no I am not religious. If you have a different definition, please be clear as to what it is and why you choose it.
Actually I liked your idea about the initial life from zilch suggestion up in the Debate section, but not sure how it would work. But studies or experiments done on figuring out possibilities are cool.

This debate between Creationists vrs Evolution Groups and their theories on the mechanics is extremely tiring. Neither of you were there and only the discussion is only conjecture upon conjecture with both parties and in the end only more hate.

Last edited by bluepacific; 02-24-2009 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,444,181 times
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Quote:
So before we can move any further to try to answer the question "Are we all religious?" we need to define "religious."
That would mean that religious people have no basis in knowledge or episitimology for considering their distinct thoughts in private over against folks religion. This raises the question: is this a private or a blood sourced humanity disguised folks religion?

Epistimology on the other hand can proceed to knowing oneself with the rest of the world: am I religious? The definition was implicitly solved. Some have strong faith for religious ways; some have weak faith. The O.P. knew the education without government intervention, and that is a right that seems to be denied you all.
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,677 times
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tigetmax24, you asserted that because every worldview requires faith then everyone is by definition religious which is still untrue. While organized atheist groups tend to be religious in the way they do things, that still doesn't mean that atheism makes someone religious, it only means that those individual atheists are religious in their worldview. Faith has nothing do with whether someone is religious or not.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,088 times
Reputation: 106
Park Twain,

I'm pressed for time right now, but here is a quick down and dirty:

I think your getting wrapped up in semantics.

I would ask: Do you believe in the existence of a transcendent eternal being, the supernatural realm and life after death?

I'm positing that a yes or no answer must proceed according to faith - but not faith alone. Faith + Reason/Logic based on evidence for or against as determined by the individual.

For the purpose of making my point, I'm accepting the assertion that I cannot prove the existence of these things (even though, in my opinion, there is indeed ample evidence) and that those denying existence of these things cannot prove their non-existence.

I assert a level playing field - you probably disagree. If so, please explain why.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,080,848 times
Reputation: 11273
Again, I believe in no religion.
Hence, I am not religious.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:45 AM
 
410 posts, read 416,775 times
Reputation: 247
I do not follow a religious practice of any sort but I do believe that a deity created all of us. I like the freedom to take in all of lifes pleasures and add to my wisdom and accumulate it over time. I take in every education possible on a daily basis keeping no barriers or restrictions in my mind.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,088 times
Reputation: 106
agnostic soldier,

"You asserted that because every worldview requires faith then everyone is by definition religious which is still untrue.
"

No. I'm asking the question: Because all world views require faith, and we all have a world view - can it be fairly asserted that we are all religious? Apparently, your answer is no - but you are weak in explaining WHY your answer is no.

"While
organized atheist groups tend to be religious in the way they do things, that still doesn't mean that atheism makes someone religious, it only means that those individual atheists are religious in their worldview."

??? Unintelligible.

"Faith has nothing do with whether someone is religious or not."

I disagree. Most would undoubtedly assert that faith is the primary ingredient in any religion. In my opinion, of course, everyone utilizes faith - hence this discussion thread.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,677 times
Reputation: 2479
tigetmax24, I would have disagree that having a worldview makes someone religious. While faith is an ingrediant of religion, that doesn't mean that having faith makes someone religious. A religious person follows some sort of of religion(ie Christianity, Wicca, Islam etc.) While nonreligious people may have faith in their worldview, this doesn't necessarily make them religious. While both religious and nonreligious people hold ethical codes and philosophies, the difference between a religious person and nonreligious person is that a religious person has an ethical code, doctrine etc. that is laid down for them. While atheist governments like Communist China are religious in the way they do things, they are more organized groups which have put forth a doctrine and ethical code which they are supposed to follow. Most people who don't follow a religion don't do this though. The average atheist or sipiritual person forms their own doctrine and ethical code rather than having one laid down for them.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,699,871 times
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So let me ask you tigetmax, what religion doctrine do you follow? By the way I am atheist, follow no doctrine and do not accept your opinion that non belief is in any way a religion, as a matter of fact I believe many atheists are anti religious.
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