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Old 02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,040 posts, read 30,718,228 times
Reputation: 12222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mktavish View Post
Im sorry I probably missed alot of stuff , but had to ask this question of this statement.
Before you took those pills , Did you have faith (believe) that they would subside the pain? Or more to the point , why did you call the ambulance? And why would you keep going back to doctors that havent given you an awnser.
I guess maybe because you have faith in modern medicine?
What would you do with a pain in your upper abdomen, chest and radiating around your back to the shoulder blades to the point of nausea and loss of consciousness? Try and pray it away? If I was in the habit of that I would have died last year when I had my heart attack. It could have been another, but luckily it wasn't my heart. Before I took those pills I KNEW they would relieve the pain, as the morphine did while I was in the hospital..........No faith required. The reason I have no answer is because there is one final test to go, and it seems that lately our system is badly backlogged...Yes I have great confidence ( call it faith if you want ) in our local paramedics because they have saved my life on one occasion already
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:54 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,801,257 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by mktavish View Post
Im sorry I probably missed alot of stuff , but had to ask this question of this statement.
Before you took those pills , Did you have faith (believe) that they would subside the pain? Or more to the point , why did you call the ambulance? And why would you keep going back to doctors that havent given you an awnser.
I guess maybe because you have faith in modern medicine?
Perhaps the pill was actually a placebo, in which case there was no actual chemical assimilated into Sandy's body and only her faith in that the drug would work made the ride more bearable. So now we can understand that it was faith that cause her brain to subconsciously take over and irradicate the pain. Now if that is true, then we need MysticPHD, effie, Bluefly, and tnostic to enlighten us as to how that whole consciousness thing was brought into play in the first place.

Okay, kidding
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,040 posts, read 30,718,228 times
Reputation: 12222
Oxycontin is NOT a placebo, nor is morphine. Back on the subject of faith. Faith is confidence in the unknown and unprovable. I have confidence in myself, many people and systems in my life. I have chosen to replace what you might describe as faith with the word confidence, so therefore have stricken faith from my vocabulary.
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:20 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,801,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Back on the subject of faith. Faith is confidence in the unknown and unprovable.
I like faith based on FACTS. For example, I have faith every night, tho I don't dwell on it, that every morning the sun will shine again. It's a faith based on a factual experience I've had over and over again and again.
Quote:
I have confidence in myself, many people and systems in my life.
Hey that's Kool, we can allow for me-ism. Being a Me-ist is allowed under freewill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
I have chosen to replace what you might describe as faith with the word confidence, so therefore have stricken faith from my vocabulary.
How confident are you in science for saving our planet's environment ??? See, I don't have much confidence (faith thingy gingy ) and that also is based on FACT and their past and present performances.
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Old 02-27-2009, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,040 posts, read 30,718,228 times
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Regarding what we are doing to the planet I believe politics and the population are more at fault than science. Science has most of the solutions, but it takes the politicians and the people to implement them. Hopefully that will happen soon, but I am confident that if humanity keeps following the path we are on we will at the very least see our quality of life continue on it's downhill slide, and at the worst eventually poison the entire thing....What people and animals that are left may as well live in a garbage dump, if life is possible at all.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:33 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,801,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Regarding what we are doing to the planet I believe politics and the population are more at fault than science. Science has most of the solutions, but it takes the politicians and the people to implement them.
Well at least you do seem to have a faith/confidence in something to believe in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Hopefully that will happen soon, but I am confident that if humanity keeps following the path we are on we will at the very least see our quality of life continue on it's downhill slide, and at the worst eventually poison the entire thing....What people and animals that are left may as well live in a garbage dump, if life is possible at all.
Unfortunately I don't find that science and politics will be any more secularly responsible than religion has been morally responsible. Most religion is a moral failure. I find that from the evidence science /politics has equally been a failure.

In both cases you have to judge on past historical performances and their track record. The track record we now have shows massive examples of irresponsibility and the recent exposure in the media spotlights these flaws tremendously. Religious failure aside, what do we actually have on the science/political side ???

You need to understand that science/politics are first and foremost "profit and power driven machines". That's their ONLY motivation for doing anything and that will never change. Now having said that, does that mean I believe that every single politician and scientist is a animalistic greedy sucker ???
Absolutely not, but even honest individuals are up against a system that does'nt work the honest way. None of them have the power to change anything. Most politicians who get elected on an honest Joe World Citizen platform are immediately taken into a backroom and educated on how the actual "Good Ol Boy's Club" actually works and if he does'nt play along, then he won't be around long. Oh they'll throw him a bone or two , but he's got to know how to play the game.

Scientist are shackled by those who employ them. From what we know of the Drug industry, do the pharmapseudical companies really have their scientists research things only out of the goodness of their hearts because of their deep heartfelt love for mankind ???
With the exposure of the obscene excessive profits they make, I'd say no. In fact just a few years ago it was found that a certain drug given to horses by veterinarians for a few dollars was in fact also the same EXACT drug given to humans under another name, but at the price of several hundreds of dollar$$$$.

And where do scientist get the ideas for drugs ??? Much of it comes from the botanical world where various alkaloids found to be medical of benefit, are then taken to a lab to have those properties researched and synthesized into a replicated chemical form rather than using any natural properties from the actual plant. Why ???
Because you can't really get a patent on a plant (with the exception of a genetically engineered variety like in the nursey or agricultural biz world) , and there is more profit in a patented synthesized chemically manufactured drugs. Try and replicate that for the humane purpose of providing cheaps meds for the poor and you get you backsides sued in the judicial court system which has also proven many times to not have any conscience.

Monsanto is one of those greedy bohemeth globalist Corporations which employs numerous scientists for the purpose of creating bio.engineered food crops for profits. They have taken farmers to court over an old farming practice of holding back some grain for next years harvest. Why ??? Because they feel they get cheated out of their right of obscene profiteering and they've won these cases against farmers. By all means, do Google this scientificly righteous company.

I'm afraid if there is no God, then your fears will be realize by all of us and no matter who is perceived as the winner of this thread's debate, we all will end up losers.

Maybe you should rethink your faith.

Sorry , I meant confidence.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:12 AM
 
54 posts, read 447,953 times
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Yes faith/confidence/believing/postulateing.... is a powerful TOOL to be used in our everyday lives ... It doesnt matter what you have it in , only that you have it.

And yes you can have faith in doubting ... even though it does seem to be the opposite

Now the whole religious thing , comes into play to describe the level of devotion and consistency of frequency imo , Of anything that one wishes to persue.

Example : "Ive started to brew beer every sunday , Im getting rather religious about it"

So the real question is , did the meaning behind the word religious develope with an actual organized philosiphy about the worship of a diety?
Or was it an allready used term added to describe the behaviour of people.

I understand people that feel Faith and Religion are on the same level as 4 letter words , but that still doesnt change the basic fundementals and laws of the universe. Your merly using a different dialect.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
tigetmax24, I think the main difference between an atheist and religious person that follows the commandments(excluding ones that are about worshipping the deity) like don't kill, don't steal etc. is that the atheist considers these morals to be natural in origin while a religious person considers them to be divine in origin.


You have rather conveniently missed my point.

Both believers and non-believers using moral codes that are "laid down."

It doesn't matter on what basis they are applied...my point is that both are making the application in their world views which you attempted to put forward as a difference between the two.

No habla?
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:26 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,653 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
When you make assumptions you make an ass of yourself....I am not here for your satisfaction. As a matter of fact I have had two ambulance rides to emergency for a still undiagnosed abdominal problem since the post you mention, and have been on powerful painkillers since...I'm so sorry to inconvenience you.....Not. I have had my final say on the thread, and if you are not happy with my opinion on the matter, then that is your problem, not mine.
Yep, I wasted my time.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,653 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
In the OP, you posited that all people are religious. Now you admit there are non-religious people. Is the debate now settled since you agree that not all people are religious?

Logic is apparently not your friend.

I didn't posit any such thing...I opened the thread with this question so that we all might discuss it.

Any moron would understand that if you look up both terms in the dictionary there will be different definitions.
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