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Old 02-14-2009, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,121,950 times
Reputation: 1643

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marilynmonroe View Post
Not really. Many things in the universe existed before anyone knew they were there. Just because it is not visible to you yet doesn't mean it isn't there.
Then they are not supernatural. They are simply unknown.
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Old 02-14-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,593,916 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Do all the various world views require faith? Yes.

How does a rationalist point of view require 'faith'? I think you are using your own private definition of the word 'faith'.

The working assumptions behind belief in, and use of, scientific facts and theories are not equivalent at all to faith.

Faith involves a decision to go beyond reason and facts to believe in a dimension of reality that is not subject to natural laws.

For example, to believe in the existences of heaven and hell requires faith. To believe in the immortality of the soul and life after death requires faith.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,103 posts, read 30,887,664 times
Reputation: 12249
Tigetmax, I have faith that you will never accept an answer that contradicts what you think, but that does not constitute religion, and you will have very little company with your definition of religion....No definition of the word religion agrees with you, but hey it's your right to call everybody else and all dictionaries wrong if it makes you happy.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,403,562 times
Reputation: 106
Sizzly,

[quote] You seem to think I choose to not believe in god/gods. Have I also made a choice to not believe in all the gods that I have never heard of? Do you choose not to believe in Santa? Or do you believe he may exist? Do you choose to believe in gravity? Or do you believe it may not exist?[quote]

More nonsense. I don't know whether or not you believe in God/gods. I merely assert that your choice to believe or not to believe requires faith.

I don't think that I'm being inarticulate or unclear here. You are just either unwilling or unable to pick up what I'm laying down.

[quote] I do not need to choose the material world over the supernatural world. The material world does not require any faith at all, nor does the material world need me to believe in it for it to exist.
The supernatural, on the other hand, would not exist if nobody believed in it.[quote]


I never said anything about belief in the material. I agree with you, the material takes very little to believe in for most of us. So far as I'm aware, Buhdists deny the existence of reality. So, we could say that some apparently lack the faith in to believe in the material world.

[quote]You have the burden of proof to prove the existence of the supernatural.[quote]

No. I have no such burden because I've never asserted the existence of the supernatural nor am I interested in trying to prove whether or not the supernatural exists. I prefer to stay on point if you don't mind.


[quote] I have refuted you point by point. [quote]

I beg to differ. What about it posters, has she refuted me point by point?

[quote]Your premise is built on faulty logic.[quote]

You keep throwing out these off the cuff statements without backing them up. Please EXPLAIN my "faulty" logic.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:21 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,403,562 times
Reputation: 106
sanspeur,

Remember my qualifier. Religion in a BASIC sense.

I'm talking about the relationship between faith and religion.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,121,950 times
Reputation: 1643
Tiget, you are arguing just to argue. You are playing by a set of rules known only to you. Please re-read the previous responses to your posts for the answers.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,403,562 times
Reputation: 106
ParkTwain,

"How does a rationalist point of view require 'faith'? I think you are using your own private definition of the word 'faith'."

Does a rationalist have a view on the existence/non-existence of God, life after death and the supernatural? I presume yes. Whether yes or no, the rationalist places faith in that viewpoint - do you agree?

"The working assumptions behind belief in, and use of, scientific facts and theories are not equivalent at all to faith."

Yes and No. It all depends on what exactly we are talking about - right?

"Faith involves a decision to go beyond reason and facts to believe in a dimension of reality that is not subject to natural laws."

Very good grasshopper. There may indeed be hope for you.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,403,562 times
Reputation: 106
Sizzly,

"Tiget, you are arguing just to argue. You are playing by a set of rules known only to you. Please re-read the previous responses to your posts for the answers."

Deny deny deny.

Name the rules Sizzly.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,593,916 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
"The working assumptions behind belief in, and use of, scientific facts and theories are not equivalent at all to faith."

Yes and No. It all depends on what exactly we are talking about - right

That's right. It's not yet clear to me what you're talking about.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:38 PM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,608,923 times
Reputation: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzly Friddle View Post
Tiget, you are arguing just to argue. You are playing by a set of rules known only to you. Please re-read the previous responses to your posts for the answers.
seconded.

Psychic Attack: Spiritual Purification and Cord Cutting
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