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Old 02-14-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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ParkTwain,

"It's not yet clear to me what you're talking about."

Fine. Please reread my original post and feel free to ask questions - I promise not to bite.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:50 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,400,431 times
Reputation: 106
Default Get real.

Why all the fuss over a simple assertion that all world views require the use of faith?
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,801,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Why all the fuss over a simple assertion that all world views require the use of faith?
Yeah, that's what I'd like to know...Its just semantics, but you are right, life requires faith, but faith is not a religion.

Why is is so important to you to define faith as religion?
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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sanspeur,

"Why is it so important for you to define faith as religion?"

First, thanks for your question.

In my original post I was careful to qualify my statement that we are all religious in a BASIC sense. I'm sure you would agree that faith is a major component in all religion - I don't think anyone would dispute that.

The rub is when I go so far as to assert that all world views require faith.

That's all I'm asserting.

Thus far, I have viewed zero sensible contrary arguments. If you are unable to provide a reasonable contrary argument, why not just agree to the validity of the assertion?
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,708 posts, read 7,581,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
ParkTwain,

"It's not yet clear to me what you're talking about."

Fine. Please reread my original post and feel free to ask questions - I promise not to bite.

I read it, believe me. I don't know what you mean by the word 'faith'. Please don't be coy, help us out here.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:06 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 12,741,136 times
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Hummmmm, as best I understand all of this, faith is the belief in things unseen or unproven. It is not necessary for atheist to prove there is no god. By the laws of logic and mathematics, one does not prove a negative, he who asserts the positive position must prove. I have found no reason why I would believe in god, yahweh, beelzebub, satan, allah, huitzelopochle, kali, ra, isis, posiden, thor, zeus, hera, athena (one of my favorites but I still don't believe in her, it is an idea I like, but I don't fool myself into believing that she is real) and, in at least one sence, I do have great faith that none of them are real. The term faith I use only because the english language does not have a better term, not because the word is accurate. Since I will not even attempt to prove a negative and I have not seen any evidence on the existence of these mythological critters. I do disbelieve that they exist, mostly because the theists have not done their homework and given me any reason to believe in their god-of-the-month club.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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ParkTwain,

"I read it, believe me. I don't know what you mean by the word 'faith'. Please don't be coy, help us out here."

I'm not trying to be coy. Faith is belief, professedly without proof (i.e. without an acceptable standard of evidence). The belief in the truth of or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

I fully acknowledge that the term "acceptable standard of evidence" is relative.

I happen to believe in truth. Truth cannot be relative.

I hope this helps. If not, I will try to my utmost ability to clear up any confusion.

Thanks for your question.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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Dusty Rhodes,

"Hummmmm, as best I understand all of this, faith is the belief in things unseen or unproven."

I Agree.

"It is not necessary for atheist to prove there is no god. By the laws of logic and mathematics, one does not prove a negative, he who asserts the positive position must prove."

I'm not asking anyone to prove there is no God. I've simply asserted that it is impossible to prove that there is no God. You apparently agree.

"I have found no reason why I would believe in god, yahweh, beelzebub, satan, allah, huitzelopochle, kali, ra, isis, posiden, thor, zeus, hera, athena (one of my favorites but I still don't believe in her, it is an idea I like, but I don't fool myself into believing that she is real) and, in at least one sence, I do have great faith that none of them are real."

Fine. I do agree that your faith is very great.

"The term faith I use only because the english language does not have a better term, not because the word is accurate."

No need to apologize. Faith is accurate here in my opinion.

"Since I will not even attempt to prove a negative and I have not seen any evidence on the existence of these mythological critters. I do disbelieve that they exist, mostly because the theists have not done their homework and given me any reason to believe in their god-of-the-month club."

Theists must prove to you that God exists? And they must provide the proof that you determine to be acceptable?

This makes it easy doesn't it. Jump over the bar and I will believe. However, I decide how high the bar will be.

What about truth?

...and please don't try to tell me that truth is relative - that would be ridiculous nonsense.
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,176,282 times
Reputation: 11277
Quote:
I haven't been telling anyone that they're wrong.
Yes, you have been telling people that they’re wrong and argue that they must have faith to not believe in your god thing.
I don’t have to prove anything about a god because I don’t believe in one.

Quote:
You seem to be saying that you can prove that God, the supernatural and life after death are all bogus. I would be interested to hear what amazing and astounding evidence you have to prove your assertion.
This issue is a non-issue to me.
You’re being disingenuous and are arguing for the sake of arguing based on your “faith” – I made no assertions about a god thing, an afterlife, etc.
I never think of it because I prefer to live in reality. That doesn’t include believing in the thousands of gods and goddesses that exist or have existed during humankind’s time on earth.

Quote:
You can't prove a negative. One would have to BE God in order to prove that there is no God.

Were back to my point that it takes faith in order to believe in the non-existence of God.
Um, no. It takes no faith for me to not believe in a god thing.

Why did you not respond with proof that there is no santa claus or easter bunny or the tooth fairy. It’s the same silly argument. You continue to refuse to present your proof that these entities don’t exist.

Quote:
You say that you don't need faith in order to believe in something that doesn't exist. Oh really? Please explain because we're all on edge waiting for you to breath some new enlightenment into our lives.
And then you attack me.
This does nothing to further your argument, you’re behaving as a troll.

You’re the one making assertions that this thing exists, as I’ve said, it’s incumbent upon you to prove that this is so.
I become enlightened from reading books, observing the world around me, developing new relationships, and traveling to new and different countries and cultures. The traveling part I do almost every weekend.

Sorry you’re obviously not confident enough in yourself and the world around you to accept that others just don’t need to have some skydaddy in their lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marilynmonroe View Post
Everyone has a right to their own opinions. Telling people there is no God and all religion is wrong is not any better than people of one religion telling people of another religion that they are wrong. It's just another form of "separation by belief".
Who has done that?
I am asserting that I don’t believe in your god thing.
Where have I, or anyone here, stated what YOU can believe?
This is why it’s so difficult, nay impossible, to discuss with the religious.
They don’t accept a point of view other than their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Why all the fuss over a simple assertion that all world views require the use of faith?
Because it’s not true.
Why the fuss over those who disagree with you?
You conflate world view and religious belief. My world view has nothing to do with any type of religious view.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,401 posts, read 18,687,004 times
Reputation: 21174
Perhaps you are attributing to faith decisions or beliefs that have been made from a "proponderence of the evidence"
There are still many things that have not been proven or disproven but conclusions can be reached by a "proponderence of the evidence".
This applies even if the word faith is casually but erroneously used in a statement such as "I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow"

Why is it so important to you to have this labled religious?
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